this post was submitted on 18 Feb 2025
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Global News

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A decision to negotiate over the heads of the Ukrainians would reveal just how Trump sees Ukraine and Europe.

Archived version: https://archive.is/newest/https://theconversation.com/ukraine-isnt-invited-to-its-own-peace-talks-history-is-full-of-such-examples-and-the-results-are-devastating-250049


Disclaimer: The article linked is from a single source with a single perspective. Make sure to cross-check information against multiple sources to get a comprehensive view on the situation.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I could believe that of any major country directly profiting from this. But what's your reliable source for all that, especially Zelenskyy?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

okay now that i've given you what you asked for and its been subsequently downvoted, maybe you'd like to share some of your wonderful and trustworthy sources?

edit: lol, second time some weirdo has gone through my entire comment history and downvoted everything i've posted in the last days. stay classy!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Uh, no. I literally just read your reply right now. But you can be confidently wrong about all that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

i said 'some weirdo' sorry if you feel that i'm implicating you. still waiting on your sources though.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago

That can absolutely be me, but you were wrong, so by circumstance doesn't apply this time. The intent was there nonetheless.

And I'm still waiting on yours.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Considering the type of shit you say? Well deserved.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

i may disagree with you but i don't think you deserve malicious bad faith actors attempting to smear and undermine you for your beliefs... i offer dialogue, i answer questions i'm asked, i try to maintain a semblance of approachability-- i am met with insults and brigading. the type of shit i say is not in a vacuum, i don't suppose you read any of the vitriol i am responding to when i lose my better self to slap back here and there.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well your account is only 3 weeks old, so surely can't have too many posts

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

306comments / 21days... about 14.5 comments per day- the bulk of them come from entrenched arguments and my addiction to receiving even more downvotes and baseless insults.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

i consider chas freeman to be my most reliable western source, but i'm sure there are others.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I meant something more substantial like a link that expands on this instead of some name drop.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"NATO expansion was legal but predictably provocative. Russia’s response was entirely predictable, if illegal, and has proven very costly to it. Ukraine’s de facto military integration into NATO has resulted in its devastation."

From your suggested reading, this stood out to me. The crux of any argument in Russia's favour seems to be that they were unhappy at the prospect of Ukraine joining NATO, and thus felt justified acting preemptively. But ultimately, that was never a demand Russia was in a position to make, so any aggression on their part is not defensible on those grounds, in my opinion.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

But ultimately, that was never a demand Russia was in a position to make

Literally what are you smoking. Look at reality. Tell me they weren't in a position to make that demand now that they've asserted themselves.

It's fucking amazing the shit people from your instance will say.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Firstly, basing your opinion of someone on the instance they signed up with is...interesting.

Secondly, I didn't mean that in the sense of they literally couldn't make the demand, but that Russia demanded Ukraine not join NATO, despite having no standing to make such a demand. Ukraine is a sovereign nation that can make its own decisions, they didn't need permission from Russia. Even the quoted article acknowledges that Russia had no grounds for an invasion, and it's generally in support of Russia's position.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

And which one would you say touches the heart of the matter of what you say? My time is limited. I think a direct quote would be a great place to start.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

i guess the many lessons one is a good start and broad edit: again someone is cycling through alt accounts and downvoting everything i've posted... lol, let's hope its a bot and someone isn't wasting their actual time to totally own me with downvotes.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Sorry to hear you're being targeted like that. Not cool. On the bright side, the points are made up and don't matter here.

I've have read through the essay and I think that the article lends itself to confusion but help me out. Kyiv does want a military resolution but only to rule its dissenting territories, which is arguably a sovereign right when you have your insecure neighbor fueling dissidents, right? This is what was giving me trouble before, because Zelenskyy has been actively calling for peace plans for a few years now. You're almost suggesting that he wants to continue fighting Russia on behalf of the UN. That's one hell of a noble sacrifice that's not quite in their best interest. If anything, the author suggests Zelenskyy has been played like a fiddle. Or am I missing something?

E: Nevertheless, thanks for the link. It was very interesting and I took my time to go through it. I'm tempted to read the other essays when I have more time.