this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2025
961 points (100.0% liked)
196
5165 readers
434 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
Other rules
Behavior rules:
- No bigotry (transphobia, racism, etc…)
- No genocide denial
- No support for authoritarian behaviour (incl. Tankies)
- No namecalling
- Accounts from lemmygrad.ml, threads.net, or hexbear.net are held to higher standards
- Other things seen as cleary bad
Posting rules:
- No AI generated content (DALL-E etc…)
- No advertisements
- No gore / violence
- Mutual aid posts are not allowed
NSFW: NSFW content is permitted but it must be tagged and have content warnings. Anything that doesn't adhere to this will be removed. Content warnings should be added like: [penis], [explicit description of sex]. Non-sexualized breasts of any gender are not considered inappropriate and therefore do not need to be blurred/tagged.
Also, when sharing art (comics etc.) please credit the creators.
If you have any questions, feel free to contact us on our matrix channel or email.
Other 196's:
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Yeah but you know "whatabout ..."
Apparently two things cannot be bad at the same time.
Do you want to win an election or do you want to be morally superior?
Everyone in America heard the Republicans go on and on and on about Hilary's emails. That's where they are vulnerable.
Shilling for a 3rd Party at this late date is silly at best.
Your comment perfectly represents the moral bankruptcy of the Democratic party. The obsession with elections and compromising, even when the midterms are almost two years away.
A proper opposition party would hammer the substance and put the institutional failures on full display. If you don't have principles, there's no point to winning power anyway.
By your logic, no one who opposed Hitler should have taken aid from the capitalist and racist Americans or the British empire.
Look at the real world. the GOP is using every dirty trick imaginable, but we should lose with dignity and honor intact.
Have you considered that maybe moral bankruptcy isn't the most effective way to win elections, at least not if you're presenting as the slightly-less-right-wing option? The Democratic party is broken, nobody is buying their shit any more, and that's why someone like Trump can get elected. There is no opposition party. It's not a problem that will get fixed by ignoring it.
I love the way you write off all the Asians who were getting killed by the Japanese. To say nothing of the US Merchant Marines who died delivering food and weapons to Murmansk. Stalin was the Donald Trump of his time.
Do you really think calling them hypocrites is gonna work when it hasn’t the 5000 other times? Dems don’t need to go after republican voters or smear republican. It’s been shown that obviously does not work. They need to be a party people want to vote for.
I've been saying it for a while now.
In WW2 the most progressive people on the planet lined up to get help from the racist Americans and the British empire because they saw Hitler was worse.
If you need to be coaxed into fighting Trump, you're not anti-fascist, you're desperate for attention.
BTW, I donated to Bernie in 2016, 2020, and 2024. It was the Progressives who failed me, not the Dems.
I’m mostly just confused by what you’re even trying to say about my post here? I said stop doing what doesn’t work and start doing something good? And your response is… uh… hitler was bad? I don’t?
Also, if you think the dems have nothing to do with progressives losing, then lol.
I'm responding to that idea.
If you need to be coaxed into voting against Trump you're not anti-fascist, you're desperate for attention.
And progressives like AOC and Omar managed to win inside the Dem Party.
Like I said, I'd love to be able to vote for an actual Progressive. Too bad they keep dropping the ball.
To think progressives are dropping the ball, but not the DNC, who has sued 3rd parties off ballots, pushed back as hard as they can against progressives(including spending DNC money against progressives in primaries & running attack ads on 3rd party), certainly is a DNC style take.
To say "not being trump" should be enough is fucking wild. That is the epitome of democracy huh? "You can't vote for a good candidate, or one that would represent your ideals. You must vote based on who you hate most! You have to support the system that forces this! it is good! and balanced!"
I'll pass dude.
Is that what you'd say to that guy who is sitting in a jail cell in El Salvador right now?
I'll pass dude. You'll just have to wait until I get a candidate I can believe in?
I wish I had that privilege.
I mean, if you think it’s progressives, the group who actually shows up to vote THE MOST, and who also do tend to vote Dem are to blame then I’m glad the DNC propaganda is working for you I guess.
But like, literal studies have shown progressives show up more %wise to vote than any other group. And also you can look at vote numbers and see left 3rd parties are like 1/3rd the votes of right 3rd parties, showing most progressives do still vote dem. A lot who do not are in places like California where Dems gonna win anyways, or Florida where Dems gonna lose anyways since they literally gave up on Florida since the last Governor election.
Too lazy to find the studies again because I’m busy. You can google it if you don’t believe me I don’t care.
Again, people not showing up to vote is the DNC’s fault for not being a party people want to vote for. If they cannot energize the vote they lose. They have not since Obama. They’ve refused to learn from that because money. They are the ones who are allowing Trump. Not progressives. Progressives control almost nothing. They have no say in the DNC. They cannot stop them from doing stupid bullshit. They’ve tried, but rather than learn and adopt progressive policy from Bernie or 3rd parties the DNC has decided to alienate them as hard as possible including fighting against them. They’ve decided they’re owed their votes anyways so they don’t need to appease them.
I guess you don't have anything to say to that guy.
What do you want me to say to him? Sorry dems were busy holding back from sentencing Trump so they could run against him? Sorry Biden decided he had to be the nominee after saying he wouldn’t be? Sorry we waited until after primaries to decide he was a horrible choice and then went with someone who decided “I’m gonna do exactly what he was doing”?
Like do you think I want Trump? Because I am criticising the DNC? I am criticising the DNC because they’re the ones fucking up.
No, but that doesn't mean you aren't helping him.
He's not the one helping Trump, you are.
I would call pushing back persecution until it is too late so he can run so Biden can say “only I can stop him” and run would be helping Trump a whole lot more than saying the DNC should strive to be a party people want to vote for, but you do you I guess.
You got proof anyone 'pushed back' the prosecution?
iirc it was the judge Trump put in that did most of the blocking.
So, you want to make up stories? You do you.
I don’t have it saved on here anymore because the whole post got deleted.
If I have time later maybe I’ll try and find the article it was on an internal memo or email or something, but Trump plus memo or email is gonna take a lot of searching to find the correct article now.
So maybe when I have time I can try and find that and the studies on progressives voting but I have a busy week and will almost definitely forget to be honest.
Do you want to win an election? Because what the DNC is currently doing hasn't worked very well for that.
Yeah, they ran a Black woman and got fewer votes than the White guy.
Almost like the Progressives stayed home.
Yeah, it's almost like progressives aren't interested in identity politics, and stayed home when the supposedly-leftist party told them to shut up.
We've known that people don't vote rationally in a democracy for almost three thousand years. Why do you keep expecting this to change?
If you want to win elections you must both appear morally superior and promise material gains. Making morally bankrupt rationalizations just turns the masses away.
Every time someone made the argument "yes we're sponsoring genocide, but Trump will be worse" you lost votes. You just made people more nihilistic.
Late... date? Does the 24/7 campaign cycle mean we can never discuss how we can get the unrepresented in our country involved in the political process?
And Im not saying they cannot be. Im saying I don’t want any opposition to be run by folks who are so undereducated that they think there is something wrong with America attacking a group of people who have “Death to America” in their slogan and are attacking innocent sailors in commercial shipping lanes.
These people have been having American and British bombs dropped on then for 10 years by now, via the planes of America and Britain's ally, Saudi Arabia.
WTF do you expect from them other than hatred for America?!
Do you expect some kind of thankfulness for the whole "I might be randomly killed tomorrow when the bus I'm traveling in gets hit by an American bomb"? Because that would be like expecting Americans to be thankful to Al-Queda after 9/11 (only worse so because far more civilians have been killed in Yemen with American bombs by America's ally than in 9/11) rather than hate the hell out of the fuckers that killing innocent people.
America's actions in Yemen have basically been the equivalent of helping Nazi Germany bomb the shit out of France and the Résistance Française and then shifting to directly bombing the Résistance themselves with little care for collateral damage by using "they hate us" as an excuse.
It's like the whole Iran situation:
And ditto for Palestine which is very much a similar situation but even worse.
I mean, you gotta be quite the tribalist muppet or extremely insular (or, more commonly, both) to keep on believing the same decades old style of excuse from American Politicians for killing people in far away lands which itself justifies giving tons of taxpayer money to military suppliers for weapons and ammo (the real objective) instead of putting it in Healthcare or Education, because there is no way you can't put 2 and 2 together otherwise.
Whenever I see this argument, I am stunned by the lack of self awareness.
We bomb them, so it's natural that they want to bomb us.
They bomb us and we need to accept it and self-flagellate over past wrongs.
You hold a double standard and a stupid one at that, considering how much more we can do to them than they can do to us.
The premise is, frankly, racist. You treat the Arabs as if they're too stupid to think in the long term, to look beyond short term retaliation.
When and how exactly have the Houtis bombed American soil?
In the post you're replying to I literally made the point that these people being angry at America is the same as Americans being angry at Al-Queda for 9/11, so I literally treated as equally understandable that both people are angry at those who bombed them, which is the very opposite of what you claim I meant.
So you're replying to whatever fantasy is going on in your mind rather than my post (which said the exact opposite of the fantasy you spun claiming that was my take), which means all those comments of yours about "lack of self awareness", "holding a stupid double standard" and "that being a racism premise" apply to the only source of that imaginary "argument" you were criticizing, You.
So it's okay to try and kill Americans so long as they aren't in America?
You are still arguing that we shouldn't be bombing them, despite the fact they're bombing us and arguing that their bombing us is understandable because we're bombing them, even though we're only bombing them because they're bombing us.
When and how exactly have the Houthis bombed American soil?
(You seemed to have forgotten to answer the very first line of my post during this goalpost moving maneuver of yours)
Further, when exactly did he Houthis "try and kill Americans" way back over a decade ago to cause America to start providing Saudi Arabia with bombs to bomb them with and keep doing so for a whole decade in the full knowledge of how they were being used?
You seem to be holding the "racist premise" that when America unilaterally acts in ways that kill non-Americans, those non-Americans aren't entitled to fight back against America and its interests, which is literally you "holding a stupid double standard" and displaying "lack of self-awareness".
They had the slogan before the war.
The Houthi are 100% without question the reason why there is a civil war in Yemen. They started the war.
They aren’t doing this for solidarity abd even Iran has told them to fucking stop
Why isn’t the US doing anything to stop the genocide in Gaza? “Death to America” is nothing compared to enabling a genocide which both the current and past administrations are guilty of. Enforcing a naval blockade on Israel is hardly criminal when Israel is intentionally starving and slaughtering Palestinians.
But even if the Houthis are as bad as you claim, even worse than the US or Israel, how does that justify targeting hospitals and civilians?
That’s not America’s job and it isn’t as if the Houthi are doing anything other than lipservice.
it’s a great reason for the USA to not see them as an ally. Did you really need that explained to you?
You didn't respond to the part about targeting hospitals and civilians. The moral conclusion here is the same as with Israel's targeting of civilians in their so-called "war against Hamas." Hamas and the Houthis are terrorist organizations that grew out of victimhood and justify hatred against their oppressors in the name of resistance. They are victims, but because they aren't perfectly moral in their resistance you condemn their entire people to indiscriminate bombing. The saddest thing about this is that it won't eliminate the terrorist groups, only bolster their support and make them more resentful.
And the largest terrorist organization - the US military - will continue its campaign of terror, creating ever more.
The Houthi are the reason why the civil war in Yemen started. They are not victims they are the perpetrator of crimes against everyone else in Yemen. They are the victimizers and you seem to not have any understanding of this. Have you never looked into the Yemeni Civil War and why it is called such?
Hamas and The Houthi are entirely unrelated groups with entirely different goals. You should not conflate them. The Houthi will sell ypu arms, likely will not sell you drugs or kids. Hamas will sell you arms, drugs and kids because they utilize a vast criminal network to finance their war while the Houthi get funds from Iran.
I am in agreement with you, my sentiments were directed to the original poster.