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Why would China do anything that helps us pick ourselves up and onto our feet? This is the goal they and Russia have been working towards for decades.
Nah-uh. No blaming China or Russia on this one. The United States did this squarely to themselves with the world pleading otherwise. They inserted their own head in the vice and started spinning the handle.
Sure, it aligns with the communist block's benefit, but the US really needs to be held accountable for its own idiocy on this one. Its the first step in recovery.
Oh so we're denying that Russia and China led disinformation campaigns squared solely at disrupting American politics for decades? Are we also ignoring the Murdochs from Australia?
Just wanted to get that straight before I started saying whatever the fuck I want.
The embarrassing thing is a lot of that disinformation was shared on social media networks that were created in the US.
Creating the tool that your enemy uses effectively against you is not a good look.
Mate, the Murdoch's? America's lap dog newspaper moguls.
They're you're mouth piece of shit trying to force Australia to be more like you sepppos
Rupert Murdoch was born in Australia, what even are you talking about?
I'm saying that Murdoch doesn't work for Australians and our interests. He's a lapdog of the US
And bailed his citizanship the instant the US proved more likely to give him the easily manipulated press he wanted
I don't see anybody stopping you from saying anything you want to say, so stop playing the victim.
Trump is a uniquely American problem. You guys either elected him, or didn't care enough to vote. Shit, his popularity is still almost 50% now even after he destroyed the economy.
Your argument is that the American people are so stupid that they were manipulated by foreign actors (TWICE) into electing an obvious fuckwit.
Well, ok, if you insist,
Didn't realize a stagnant 40% means almost 50%, what a lesson in math!
Hahahha fucking scomo got lower than that, and his chief crime was being an unlikeable cunt and about half as incompetent. jesus christ america where the fuck are your heads
i believe russia be to blame, it kinda obvious weakeaning america helps putin, it has been his goal for 10years,.
putin ramped up his misinformation, conveniently around the time he was elected , '16-17 on reddit we saw significant purges for the very first time, and peoples sensitivites as massively increased. my very first bans of an og account around that time.
And they do it to their citizens too...
...And we do it to other countries and we do it to our citizens.
You can't condemn another country for what we've been actively doing considerably longer than them having never stopped credibly. Our house is made of that candy glass they use in movies in this particular arena.
The oligarchs and their increasingly captured government, including both parties, have been poisoning us against anything that isn't hyper-capitalist greed enabling from the great depression to the McCarthy witch hunts into today. Very few Americans could define socialism or communism in any sense with a gun to their heads, but they've been misinformed into being filled with hate and/or dread when they're uttered.
Name one world superpower that doesn't actively engage in mass disinformation campaigns both within and without, I'll wait. I'd also argue that like our general military, we certainly spend the most on our global Orwell machine. Our CIA, along with the KGB, are the OG playbooks other nations refer to when doing it themselves.
How does that make any of it right? And how does it negate my point?
So far you've said a lot of obvious things, none of which refute my point that this end is what Russia and China have been working towards.
I'm saying that you can't credibly go "you... You fucking shot me! What the fuck?!" at someone who shot you because you shot them a few seconds prior to that.
It doesn't make it right. It's wrong. But it's also a non-sequitur for a serial killer to condemn another serial killer over the sanctity of life.
As an American, Americans have no business condemning other nations about misinformation campaigns until we clean our fucking house up and provide reparations to those both within and without who were hurt by our misinformation campaigns.
So what you’re saying is, because America’s government is doing shady shit, American citizens have no right to call out other countries for the shady shit they’re doing?
Since you like your weird conversational analogies, that’s like you saying;
“China gets to shoot whoever the fuck they want because other countries have shot people!”
Two wrongs don’t make a right. It’s a dumb argument. Stop doing it.
I mean, you can and are.
That being said, it's equivalent to a Chinese citizen finger wagging at the US about our compromised democratic republic.
It would ring empty from a citizen of a place that will literally run tanks over him for wanting a political voice, and would be gallows comical as a source. Context matters.
Don't like it? Let's clean our house up. IMHO the Nordic nations, with the happiest citizens with the highest sense of wellbeing in the world, the only point of civilization existing for those still paying attention, have the right to talk Infinite shit about just about anything to just about every other nation, because they're doing being a society right and meeting the only fucking goal that matters. Their house is made of iron, not candy glass. Every nation on Earth should be taking their notes, every citizen of every other nation rioting for their models to be enacted at home.
Wait what?
Huh? I'm the American government now? I reserve the right to condemn any government, anywhere, for any reason. Especially when they make choices without my consent.
You speak emotionally, betraying that you know very little about the problems that truly need to be solved.
You are in a sense.
Americans love to separate ourselves, but George Carlin was right, this is a representative government. I voted against him thrice, and primaried for an actual left, and phone banked for Sanders on two campaigns, but Donald Trump represents the United States as it is in practice perfectly.
He's like the United States anthropomorphized into human form. Proudly classist, proudly racist, proudly greedy, proudly willfully ignorant, proudly drunk on schaudenfreude, proudly cruel and sociopathic, obsessed with ego score and image despite being a gross, overweight pig.
Trump is this fucking place. The embodiment of everything I've despised about this fucking cesspool since before he was fake firing people on fake reality TV. We could not be governed more appropriately as a people given our PRACTICED values of being temporarily embarrassed millionaires dying alone undermining one another to "beat" our neighbors instead of living reasonable lives together if we tried.
Maybe we should stop being a horrible, antisocial society that tries to compete against one another in every possible way instead of cooperating before we continue to tell other places what they're doing wrong, because this is a meth house on fire, geopolitically speaking, and has been since the 1970s. We don't have the credibility to get caught up in other nation's problems.
Oh also, sticks and stones but ad hominems will never hurt me.
Trump provided China an excellent excuse to start a trade war and look like the heroes while doing it. This is absolutely Trump's fault, but China has no reason to not take full advantage of it.
That's true. The US has been interfering in other country's domestic affairs for decades. Organising the odd coup, overthrowing elected leaders. Suddenly people are shocked to learn that it can work both ways.
A country with strong democratic institutions are pretty resilient to these tactics. You might not trust the politicians, but you trust the officials, the military and the courts.
It seems that the US has dismantled trust in these institutions for a long time. It has let corporations run the show. So Russia and China have an easier task.
Ah, yes, the famous denial of fascists in your own country.
YOU VOTED IN TRUMP WITH A MAJORITY KNOWING HE IS FASCIST.
This is squarely the fault of the American people. Lack of education and political will might be to blame, but to say that you are victims is such a farce that I don't believe you live in reality.
He won by razor thin margins and many didn't even vote. So yeah, most Americans are victims here.
I'm not sure your allegory is very apt.
China is very much a socialist economy
It's been fucking wild as a resident of a non-us country seeing some of the commentary coming up. We must radical empathy! How dare other countries take advantage of X Y or Z? The shoe is on the other foot, and by GOD is it a problem if anyone but the US starts doing what the US has been doing to everyone else on the planet my entire freakin' life
We all know they're propaganda riddled exceptionalists but goddaaaamn. Need to learn to accept cause, effect and consequence
I'm starting to feel like this is a controversial opinion, but maybe the American people should be the ones holding their own government accountable? Interventionism is the worst way to fix a country and I very much doubt it even could be done for a country like America.
I am hoping the US splits apart, allowing the red states to destroy themselves. Conservatism is a cancer, and the condition would be easier to excise if it was a solid tumor.
Difficult to argue against, except America is doing this too us as well, and we don't get a vote.
All the more reason to not do anything about it. Let America implode and their interventionist power also takes a hit.
What "communist" block are you talking about? Is this 1989?
Only if you take what I said very literally. The Chinese and the Russians are concluding, I'm sure you would agree.
Colluding, you mean?
Of course, spelling was never my strong suit.
I do appreciate being corrected. Thank you...
russia maybe, because putins directing trump to do this, more or less it helps russia in the long run.
"Never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake."