this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.

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[–] [email protected] 183 points 11 months ago (4 children)

That will never happen while Netanyahu and his regime are in power. And the only time steps were taken in that direction, the Israeli Prime Minister got assassinated.

[–] [email protected] 69 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Assassinated by hard line Israelis who refuse to accept any type of two states solution. I have always wondered if we would have seen a true two state solution if Yitzhak Rabin hadn't been shot. I think it probably would have happened.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

After reading his biography I fully believe that he could have created Middle East peace he could have been so fucking great he was a good man

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The crazy thing is he wasn't some flower in the hair, love and peace is all we need kind of guy. he was part of the IDF and fought in several of the early conflicts. Then once he entered politics he was the defense minister for 10 years. He had the makings of any hardliner. But he was a guy that believed that peace was the only way forward for a conflict. A soldier who knew war and knew peace was the better choice.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

Basically one part of the Israeli independence war was a small civil war between left and right Zionists. The lefties won (being more numerous and frankly more popular, after WWII and all) and created a left-nationalist secular state with some meritocratic pretense, friendly with USSR but also with France and UK and USA.

Then they realized the need for pluralism and let the righties back into politics (because of need for their participation and their representation in the military and elsewhere). The righties frankly were more normal then, but that both made them an acceptable force in Israeli politics and still didn't remove the memory of that small civil war.

And then, after this assassination, a new force came in - the new generation of Irgun cosplayer righties, which wasn't normal in any sense of the word. By now these cosplayers have hijacked the social discourse in Israel to the level where they both demonize the remaining lefties and the remaining lefties barely make any difference.

The problem with cosplayers is that they need to be grotesquely evil. Otherwise they won't seem real enough. They also need to be grotesquely dumb. Otherwise their ideology's inconsistencies will break them apart. Same as with Turkish state being (somewhat) more vegetarian and intelligent than Azerbaijan.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 11 months ago (2 children)

nor will the Hamas remain peaceful...

[–] [email protected] 104 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Considering they're the only ones offering to lay down arms, I'd say they're more likely to be peaceful than the IDF and Netanyahu, who are not making such an offer.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

They also justified the terrorist attack on the 7th of october, welcomed the large attack on Israel, are not "ashamed to say that Israel has no place in their land and has to be removed" and "will do it again and again".

So yeah they may lay their weapons down, but they never remain peaceful.

Source: https://news.yahoo.com/hamas-member-says-repeat-attacks-065643206.html?guccounter=1

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/11/02/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news#hamas-official-promises-more-attacks-against-israel-similar-to-those-of-oct-7

[–] [email protected] 77 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Okay? I still only see one side saying they're willing to lay down arms. "This will end when we get an independent state" vs. "this will end when you're all dead?" The former seems more reasonable to me. Your mileage may vary.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Your mileage may vary.

It does. I agree that Netanyahu has to go and Palestine should have the chance to be independend, but the Hamas has also to be put down for good. With those terrorist fucks and their degenerated supporters, there will be no peace in the middle east.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 11 months ago (2 children)

How did 'Al Qaeda has to be put down for good' work out for the U.S.?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

How did ‘Al Qaeda has to be put down for good’ work out for the U.S.?

Not that bad since Osama and Zawahiri are dead. Their last big terrorist attack against America was when, 2010? Against the west in general, in France 2015? Since then they pretty much done or in a clash with the Taliban. If we can do the same with the Hamas, I would call it a win.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I see, so by 'put down for good,' you meant 'still exists, just not doing anything dangerous to Israel at this moment.'

Also, you know it took decades of war for Al Qaeda to get to that point, right?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I see, so by ‘put down for good,’ you meant ‘still exists, just not doing anything dangerous to Israel at this moment.’

Which is pretty desireable based on the current situation, right? Get rid of their leadership and cripple them.

Also, you know it took decades of war for Al Qaeda to get to that point, right?

No shit sherlock, but it's also not like the conflict in the middle east just started in October...we are already a few years into it and it looks like a good point to get rid of their leadership for good now. That and a independend Palestine could make terrorists like them useless and maybe, just maybe could bring peace to the region. But with them still intact, I so ne future in this...

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I guess I'm very confused about the way you used term 'put down for good' to mean 'made ineffective, but maybe only temporarily' or why you think this conflict wouldn't also take decades.

Do you think when people have a pet put down, they actually send it to live on a farm upstate?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah I guess there is no point in continuing this discussion here...and no I don't think that Osama is on a farm right now, but maybe you do. And yes "made ineffective, but maybe only temporarily" is a desiable state for the current situation since it can pretty much mean that they are done. But like I said no point in discussing this any further with you ;)

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Okay. Though just so you know, this is what 'for good' means:

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

you can use google, not bad. Have an upvote for that :)

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago

Apparently you also do not know what the phrase "I guess there is no point in continuing this discussion here" means.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Mission Accomplished! Haliburton won ^ every contract^

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You can't shoot an idea. The only way to kill Hamas for good would be genocide. Or actually solving the underlying problem with Palestine, and so starving them of redicalised recruits.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago

They shouldn't be ashamed to say it. Israel has no place on their land and should be removed. We aren't talking about mom and pop tourists but militants that are forcing people out of their homes and killing their children.

What the fuck are you smoking?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

If Palestine wasn't oppressed, no one would be joining Hamas and they would have no power. This is a problem Isreal created for themselves.

I recommend this video, it really shows how what Isreal calls peace is still so oppressive.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It’s pointless arguing this on Lemmy. Everyone here is convinced that the Islamic jihadists are oppressed and just want peace despite what they actually say and do.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'm not saying that. You guys seem to think Arabs are born angry, though, and so can't be dealt with just by not being consistently a bastard yourself.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (25 children)

Hey what's your thoughts on manifest destiny? Just curious

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

They also justified the terrorist attack on the 7th of october, welcomed the large attack on Israel, are not “ashamed to say that Israel has no place in their land and has to be removed” and “will do it again and again”.

Now do Israel with the same energy.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

What is it with your constant attempts at whitewashing Hamas? There were four alerts in Israel due to rockets launched from Gaza on that same day.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

That day was at the start of the ceasefire.

The Hamas rockets were after the ceasefire.

Notice the week in between?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

He needs it as background for his "Voting for Biden is voting for genocide"-LARPing. In my opinion he's a rightwinger trying to muddy the waters (as if Trump would do fuck all about Gaza)

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There was an effective ceasefire before 7th October (apart from the random rockets fired Israel’s way) that was broken pretty badly. Making a ceasefire deal with terrorists that attacked you and took hostages and will never stop attacking you makes no sense.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Effective ceasefire = israel commits Genocide and nobody fights back?

24 September 2023 - Israeli airstrikes hit Gaza for the 3rd day in a row as West Bank violence intensifies

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Nobody fights back? You’re having a laugh. They attack Israel constantly. That’s their faith and their purpose to get to paradise. Stop ignoring what they actually say

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Israel just "defended themselves" onto Palestinian land and those Untermensch in their concentration camp should shut up and do nothing back for the rest of their lives! How dare Palestinians resist against their brutal oppressors! They should roll over and die in without fighting back like PA does in the West Bank!

But anyways, what was that about a 'ceasefire' before oct7?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You’re a terrorist sympathiser. They are not fighting in resistance because they’re oppressed. They’re trying to wipe out Israel because their holy book tells them to.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Oh look your entire argument got destroyed now it's over to ad-hominems and verbatim Hasbara.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

I think Clinton may have been the last individual human that could have prevented catastrophe in Gaza. He should have capitilised on it and essentially refused to take no as an answer from Israel. Instead, he just kind of went "oh well", and here we are.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

or while the us is interested in maintaining their geopolitical presence in the region.

honestly i doubt it would be that easy at all.