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this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2024
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That is what I was hoping to hear.
And I still say doing a stunt that even makes it look like you've done some real damage to Stonehenge right in the middle of a religious festival does not make you look like the good guys. People in another thread said it spread awareness. Who isn't aware? I'm fully aware of climate change and there's fuck all I can do about it.
But at least it was not permanent vandalism.
Like half of the world is in denial.
How would you spread awareness that translates to action?
Denial is not lack of awareness.
I don't know exactly how I would spread awareness, but I know exactly how I wouldn't: Making people think I damaged a beloved ancient monument during a religious festival... a religious festival, as someone else pointed out, for people who venerate nature.
How about, as an idea, paint bombing Shell Oil headquarters?
Clearly, a good portion of the population isn't aware of how serious the situation is, it's still an election issue.
If the right level of awareness was reached, having any kind of oil money around you would be a political death sentence. Instead, Trump has public bribe meetings with oil execs and his base grows because of it.
Ok, now please explain, since no one else will, why pissing people off is a good way to achieve that.
Have you ever convinced anyone of something by pissing them off?
They said the same about woman and gay rights movements. You can't make noise, block traffic or even talk about it without pissing people off.
Not to mention most of the anger is manufactured by oil execs and then enabled by people with little to no proper reasoning skills.
That's a little different from disrespecting a religious festival, isn't it?
Pivoting into religious rights about the summer solstice celebration. That's a stretch if I've ever seen one. I don't see why religious monuments should be exempt from harmless protests but I really doubt you would have called stone hedge one yesterday if it wasn't for it suiting your argument today.
Is that your stance. You are pissed because you think the religious rights of the revelers got trampled on?
First of all, I didn't say anything about rights. This is about respecting people. People who are on their side.
Secondly, it was a religious celebration, as it is for British Wiccans and other people of similar faiths every year.
https://www.npr.org/2023/06/21/1183408306/summer-solstice-brings-druids-pagans-and-thousands-of-curious-people-to-stonehen
Maybe you don't consider them religions or something, but they are.
Why are you more angry about a stunt that did no damage than you are about actual ecological damage done by oil companies for profit?
How do you know what I'm more angry about?
By what you're crowing about.
I'm "crowing" about the subject of the article. Otherwise known as being on-topic.
MLK advanced civil rights by being a nuisance. Gandhi pushed Britain out of India by being a nuisance. I'm sure there are others.
It is in the nature of protest to be disruptive. It has to be. If it isn't, it gets ignored. Climate change is getting ignored. What would you rather they do, go deface an oil refinery? That'll just get them arrested and the news suppressed. Big public displays that can't be hushed are the only way to make sure your message reaches the world. These folks have been considerate enough to make sure that message didn't permanently damage its canvas. I don't know what more you could ask from them.
I said I was glad it wasn't damaged. I don't know what more you could ask from me.
Not only did they decide to do it in the middle of a religious festival, they did it in the middle of a festival that’s part of a religion that worships nature.
If you'd been paying attention, you'd know it wasn't permanent from the get go.
I was paying attention. That doesn't mean I don't wait for experts to say that it really isn't permanent.
Unless you are assuming the environmental protesters were geologists and familiar with whether or not things like getting into cracks would make a difference at Stonehenge. I don't see a reason to make such an assumption.
They said it was orange corn flour all along, and they have a history of not actually damaging anything but using the appearance of "damage" to make a point. Corn flour is a very simple, inert substance. You're actually demonstrating the hypocrisy that this group is trying to highlight - more concern over something like corn flour damaging these rocks than the damage done by millions of barrels of crude oil extracted every day. Where's your outrage over acid/micro plastic in rain that falls on these stone every week? There will be new species of moss that grow on these rocks, or pollen that blows on them from invasive species, possibly damaging them as the climate heats up - are you worried about that? Why can folks summon outrage over something inert that touched a famous rock, but not for destruction of the actual biosphere? If Stonehenge is that fragile, why are people allowed anywhere near it? You're more than welcome to disagree with them, but if you spend more energy complaining about Just Stop Oil than you do complaining about actual oil companies, you're actually just supporting the oil companies.
https://professortorberts.com/shop/
Am I not allowed to be concerned about both climate change and an important ancient monument? Are you not able to be concerned about more than one thing at a time?
Butter corn syrup!
Sounds like maybe you are lacking some awareness around this issue.
Okay, you tell me exactly what I'm supposed to do.
Lots of things but the easiest would be to find local orgs that have already developed political strategies relevant to your local political context and work with them. They can fill you in on the rest.
Climate change won’t be addressed until there is a much larger movement that can flex serious political power. Think civil rights movement—that’s the kind of organizing we need.
Okay, now what can I do when I'm so sick that I have to rest for hours after walking the dogs for 30 minutes?
Doing nothing would be a start since apparently, you are using that time to disparage the efforts of others.
You don't have to help, even though you have more than enough time from what you are saying. I know, it's not your fault, bla blah, you're a victim. You could just like not have a shitty attitude, that's all.
You're right, I will disparage people who think that the way to help is to piss people off.
The main ones being pissed off is the oil industry and that's who you are actually helping.
Why would the oil industry give a shit if people paint stonehenge?
They're happy that folks like you are focusing on the people throwing cornstarch rather than the people causing higher acidity in rain that's actually damaging Stonehenge.
There is much work to be done and not all of it is physical. I don’t know the specifics of your condition but you are here posting on social media. At minimum, there is likely a need for similar work to be done in support of your local orgs.
Again, if you find some local folks doing such work, I am sure they would help you find your niche.
So you're saying don't look like you're vandalizing an ancient monument during a religious festival held by nature worshipers? I agree and that was my point.
They answered what you can do and you completely ignored it.
I am somewhat undecided about this action. It gets people talking (as we’re doing now) but it may also risk turning people away from the cause, especially those who are only casually interested or aware of the facts or issues.
But my point was your suggestion that everyone is already aware of climate change is absurd. Especially the follow up that no one can do anything about it. Sure, they’ve heard of it, but everyone is continuing to behave as if it doesn’t exist. There needs to be much greater awareness, discussion, and then action on this topic, and until such time we will need to do disruptive things to get people’s attention. I do prefer to disrupt the people most responsible, personally.
Do you have money or time to put towards it?
Industrial sabotage is whats needed at this point imo.