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Four killed in Kentucky mass shooting before suspect turned gun on himself
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2024
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Any gun nut feel like arguing for insanity that are US gun laws?
All you need to do is ignore science and reality and every other country outsider of the US and be convinced that undiagnosed schizophrenics being able to buy a shedload of semi-automatic weapons is necessary for democracy.
All I need to do is remind you that there's not a single piece of study that supports any of the arguments of the gun nutters.
(Also, just because it seems to matter to these nuts, I started shooting at 12 and have handled everything from old officer's pistols to shotguns to modern assault rifles, machine guns, grenades, mines, and even AA guns. Shooting is fun, yeah, but having fun isn't more important than making sure children don't have to live under the constant threat of their fellow pupils pulling out a semi-auto with a bump-stock.)
Edit after three days: yeah, not a Single scientific study of any sort from the gun nuts, but the usual "teenagers aren't kids and we don't actually have any issues and I'm not reading some study, muh rights, just a gang problem" etc etc etc etc
Cry all you want big boy, the science is on the side of us non-brainwashed, rational people who understand the need for actual gun regulation in a civilised country.
Too bad the US hardly qualifies to that group any more. Third world level literacy rates, so many homeless that human shit is an actual issue in supposedly civilised cities, and firearms as the leading cause of death for children.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/darreonnadavis/2023/10/05/firearms-now-no-1-cause-of-death-for-us-children---while-drug-poisoning-enters-top-5/
There's a literal mountai in the of evidence showing that all you need to do to start facing this problem is reasonable nation-wide gun regulation. Something everyone knows works and something that you won't find science against, because gun regulation being the answer is as clear to most people as is the fact that the Earth is round, not Flat.
But you will find Flat Earther crazies who won't believe in the science even when their own science proves that they are indeed wrong.
You're emotional. You get so angry when you're reminded that you go against science because you don't have the balls to actually use your own brain.
https://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/1/140.full.pdf+html
Oh yeah no, it doesn't bear any rationale to this argument. It's just there because gun nuts always default to the "you're just afraid of my pew-pew sticks, that's why you support gun regulation". Nah. I love guns, they're fun. But you know what I care more about than loud bangs? That children don't have to live in fear of some incel fucktards charging into their school with a pimped out AR15 with a bumpstock.
There's literally not a single peer reviewed study that concludes that less gun control is better, for anything.
But I'm sure the lack of science won't stop you, just like it doesn't stop Flat Earthers.
You're really just here to prove my point about the willfull ignorance of nuts like you. So... thanks, I guess?
Look up the definition of children used here. Also look at suicide and homicides as part of that larger number. There's a lot of context that points to the fact that the root cause (obviously) isn't the tool, but the system the tools exist in.
People like them reek of the sheltered-liberal-20-year-old mindset of "the system is almost perfect, is we just make a couple of tweaks here and there it'll be fine." As if firearm restrictions alone will address socioeconomic ossification, the lack of meaningful state protection of vulnerable populations, deep resentment of minorities in homogenous, conservative areas, etc. Whining about how dumb people who hate guns less than they do are lets them get away with not doing the difficult work of addressing deep-rooted structural injustices. Fucking weak.
Works literally everywhere where reasonable gun regulation has been implemented on a national level.
https://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/1/140.full.pdf+html
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
Like I said, unfortunately for you, we rational people have all the science backing us up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You follow narrative, we follow science.
"big boy"
I agree guns in America must change, but you don't do yourself a service by using schoolyard name-calling. Especially when he called you emotional lol
That's what people have to do when they transparently have no actual knowledge of the regulatory landscape they're trying to wade into lol. The same kind of idiot who actually believes it when some politician tells that that a complicated problem has an easy solution.
Science isn't on your side. Science is pretty quiet on ethics and human rights.
We pay a cost for all of our rights. None of them are free or without a body count, even if only in opportunity cost.
https://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/1/140.full.pdf+html
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
Like I said, unfortunately for you, we rational people have all the science backing us up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Show any science backing up anything saying gun control wouldn't help with the violence issue. Or is your argument now "I'm willing to allow children to be massacred on a weekly basis in practice with the excuse to allowing it to continue will perhaps serve a purpose for some fictional scenario I've been fantasising about"?
Because letting children die instead of just using sensible gun regulations like most of the world is a must in case you need to try another jan 6th, huh?
The science supports the effectiveness of rights violations? Neato. I'm sure we could find other 'science backed solutions' if we don't consider rights in the analysis.
There are things we can do to address genuine root causes of different types of firearm-related violence. Banning guns, leaving all those young people in horrible situations because you refuse to analyze the situation and patting yourself on the back sounds about right, though.
It's possible to disagree with someone without being a dick. Try it some time.
Do you honestly think everyone having access to a firearm is a fundamental human right?
Because… it very much isn’t.
For more about those, you can read on
https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/human-rights
And here, in a listed format, and you’ll very much notice the absence of being armed.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/universal-declaration-of-human-rights/
Let’s take article 3 as an example of a fundamental human right.
Do you think the US would manage to better protect that right if they accepted the actual science on the issue, rhe one which proves people would be safer and there’d be less gun violence if reasonable regulation was instilled on a national level?
Hope this helps, because people like you need to be helped so we can help ensure better fundamental human rights in the US.
Did your literacy study control for people who are ESL or resident non-english speakers (legal resident or illegal)? Most of those literacy studies are actually kinda racist, just fyi. In your fervor to call Americans stupid you may want to not be racist while you do it.
Btw, turns out around around 44% of Aus adults don't have the literacy skills required for every day life https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/Lookup/4228.0main+features992011-2012
So they're stupider by your metric, I suppose, and idk what their immigrant population looks like so idk if they have a similar "problem" (really less of a "problem" than you'd think actually, they get by ok) with Spanish-only speaking people.
Btw firearms aren't the leading cause of death for children, that study included "children" who are full grown ass 18-19yo adults involved in gangs and took place in 5 cities known for their gang problems, iirc it was NYC, LA, Baltimore, Chicago, and Philly. It also took place during the pandemic when the real leading cause of death would have been deflated, because it's car crashes, and if they're mostly staying home for zoom classes it cuts down on car crashes. Gang activity waits for no pandemic, people need money and other people need to lose theirs to drug addiction, business was booming during the pandemic for dealers, not to mention we still have an opiate epidemic we're dealing with which also overlapped the pandemic (we've been in it for like 15yr now.)
What's the age at which you can legally be served alcohol — an adult beverage — in the USA? Is it above 19, perchance?
Do you know how fucked you have to be to say that "no it's all bullshit, our children only have gun violence as a leading cause of death if you include the older children, so there's actually nothing to worry about, no problem".
You guys repeat the same pathetic bullshit everytime, and just like I said, you never have any science. At least the Flat Earth people are making up models of their fictional bullshit but you're not even capable of that.
https://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/1/140.full.pdf+html
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
Like I said, unfortunately for you, we rational people have all the science backing us up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
18+ is legally considered an adult, but I do agree that it's bullshit to have the middle ground, I think they should be able to drink. Doesn't change the fact that they're legally considered adults.
Doesn't change the fact that they're still kids.
Probably a reason the limit is 21, yes? Perhaps something about still being a developing human being?
And you're really gonna die on the hill of "we have no issue since only if you think of all teenagers as kids would this even be true"?
This is what I mean with the "always the same shitty propaganda, never any science.
So boring.
Teenagers are kids.
Also
https://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/1/140.full.pdf+html
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/
Like I said, unfortunately for you, we rational people have all the science backing us up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Those "teenagers" are selling heroin and crack in organized gangs (crips, bloods, piru, GD, sureños, etc) and shooting each other over it, especially in the cities the study took place in which are known for their gang and drug activity. Guess what, heroin is illegal for "children" to buy as well, but they get it just fine, that is the issue and that is why nobody takes that stupid study seriously.
Anyone familiar with the situation knows that study was bunk and had bad methodology, idk why you continue to shill for it but you do you lol.
Again, the same "talking points".
At least Flat Earthers try to make their own science. You lazy gun nuts literally repeat three NRA talking points on repeat.
So for you, it's acceptable if children die if they're in their late teens and were involved with anything illegal.
That's quite barbaric viewed from the rest of the world, really. Just like corporal punishment in general. But you also have the whole private prisons industry thing so... Ew.
"Our children are dying to gun massacres we could easily prevent but I like my toys and can't think for myself so I'm gonna keep spreading the things I heard on NRA.tv"
If they decide to enter a gang war, yes, they're in a separate category from some kid just going to math class, because of the inherent dangers in gang warfare. Is this really that hard for you to understand? That choosing to shoot people for taking "your" crackheads comes with inherent dangers, such as being shot at in return by the guys taking your customers? You think calculus and Cartel meth labs are the same? Never seen a mathlete cut off enemy mathlete's heads personally, but maybe you have a video I haven't seen like Funkytown but for debate team?
It's not corporal punishment for a crip to shoot a blood, it's called "murder" which is a "crime." I literally know a fuckton of gang members because of where I grew up, it's a poor choice to enter and the ones that don't quit the life are destined to die "in the line of duty" (read: trying to kill someone illegally because they're wearing the wrong color shirt.) They chose that life.
You gonna go door to door in the heart of the hood and take guns from gang members who already aren't legally allowed to have them? Be my guest lol, there's 600,000,000+ guns be sure to get them all.
More crying, more bullshit NRA propaganda, zero science.
Exactly the same with gun nuts, always.
Yes yes adult "children" who are legally considered adults are children, and the NRA is the sole reason they're considered adults at 18. Boo hoo. Whatever lol
In the rest of the world, saying "boo-hoo, whatever" to child massacres you could prevent simply by accepting the scientific consensus is viewed as less than civil.
What a stupid comparison. Guns have one purpose - destruction. You can talk about all the things you can do with guns, but their intended purpose and design is to destroy. The better they destroy shit, the more valuable they are. They're nothing without that. Pools and hot tubs are not that, and provide value to families and communities in other ways. Also, it's water. Literally water. And many areas have building codes surrounding pools and their safety. Mainly fences and safety covers. Homeowners insurance is also more expensive when you own a pool. Does that stop every child from drowning? No. Do we know how many times a child was saved because a pool was legally required to have a fence or safety cover? Also no. Also, there is no one running around with pools or hot tubs in their pockets drowning children en masse.
None of that was to say it doesn't matter, it's to say it's a stupid comparison. We can work on drownings and work on gun deaths at the same time. They're two completely different problems. If I said too many people died in car accidents, you wouldn't say "well what about cigarettes!? Don't care about lung cancer then huh?" Yes. They both problems. Such different problems it's stupid to compare them. Pool safety also isn't a divisive political issue that's winds up in the news because people would mostly agree on common sense pool safety. There's no group of fenceless pool enthusiasts protesting for their right to own a pool that a child could easily drown in. We would consider those people idiots.
He's literally using whataboutism.
It's a garbage rhetoric "tactic" and you should not engage in it with him.
Going "b-b-but bathtubs" isn't him showing any science on gun regulation, it's pathetic whataboutism, all people like him are capable of.
And even with cars, a mode of transport that can be fatal if there's accident (but the main use of which is transportation), there already is reasonable regulation, because ONE NEEDS A LICENCE TO DRIVE, and there are criteria you need to meet to be allowed a licence.
edit gddamn autocorrect
It's crazy that in America apparently you need to be a gun expert to know if you like to get shot on the streets or have your children get shot in a school. Ah ah aaaah, he said clip instead of magazine, he don't even know so his argument is invalid. You get murdered by a bullet from a magazine, not a clip. Gun nuts win again.
Mississippi has three times more gun deaths per capita than Ukraine during an active war. Your argument is 100% invalid.
Guns now top cause of death in children under 19, surgeon general says
If that doesn't suggest to you we have a problem that needs to be solved, the problem is you, not whatever you want to nitpick to avoid changing the gun situation in the US this time.
So nitpicking it is. (also it's odd that the Surgeon General is making a statement in 2024 that doesn't use any data newer than 2020 - so odd, that I doubt your claim is correct.)
The shooter was a convicted felon. What law do you suppose would've prevented this?
And here lies the problem. There are a ton of gun laws on the books already, but the enforcement of them is the problem. Adding more laws isn't going to change that.
Maybe one that removes all guns entirely. Other than that, not much.
Project 2025.
And until the day comes when exactly that has no chance of ever happening again, minorities should keep strapped.
If you really want to understand their perspective, consider an analogous argument involving some other fundamental human right, ideally one that you strongly support.
An easy one is free speech. Many countries without this right believe it is dangerous and stupid, using a litany of rational assertions and examples to justify themselves.
Consider all of the harm caused by people spreading lies and propaganda. The right to free speech ensures the most evil ideas and people can utilize our most powerful social constructs to attack the very foundations that a stable society depends on. etc...
Every right can be abused, and likewise an argument can be formulated against them based on their potential for abuse. Those that support some right typically believe the benefits outweigh the costs.
Hope this helps.
Do you honestly think everyone having access to a firearm is a "fundamental human right"?
Because... it very much isn't.
For more about those, you can read on
https://www.un.org/en/global-issues/human-rights
And here, in a listed format, and you'll very much notice the absence of being armed.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/what-we-do/universal-declaration-of-human-rights/
Let's take article 3 as an example of a fundamental human right.
Do you think the US would manage to better protect that right if they accepted the actual science on the issue, rhe one which proves people would be safer and there'd be less gun violence if reasonable regulation was instilled on a national level?
Hope this helps, because people like you need to be helped so we can help ensure better fundamental human rights in the US.