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A) Fuck this racist piece of shit.
B) Anyone who says they support Palestinians but not Hamas are intentionally being ignorant, since the vast majority of the Palestinians in Gaza support Hamas and their attack(s) on Israel based on decently reputable local polling (not sourced by Israel)
People need to take their head out of the sand and realize that this isn't just an Israeli invasion, it's a war that both sides want to keep fighting. It's just a stupid war since Palestine is significantly weaker and getting their ass handed to them. The only reason Hamas is even still able to keep fighting is they're being heavily funded with money and weapons from outside countries that want to weaken Israel. Gaza is dirt poor, they have no militarily exploitable resources or weapons production ability.
You are arguing in bad faith.
My support for Palestine means wanting Israel to stop killing Palestinian civilians. This does not indicate my support for Hamas.
You have multiple unbelievable claims that are not cited.
I am not arguing in bad faith. The fact that you think my claims are unbelievable is part of the problem, you're clearly uneducated on the situation along with the vast majority of Palestinians supporters. Here's the sources.
71% support for the Oct 7th attack as of March 2024 both in Gaza and the West bank https://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2091%20English%20press%20release%2020%20March%202024.pdf
PCPSR is the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, an entirely Palestinian organization.
Support for the attack has deteriorated since then, but they were very happy with it until the real consequences started.
As for the funding...
The October 7th attack was seen as a retaliation for a wave of settler attacks all summer on multiple Palestinian towns and the invasion of Al Aqsa. It doesn’t necessarily mean support for Hamas. Same way Israelis may support bombing Gaza but not necessarily supporting Netanyahu.
They still support an act of mass violence against civilians, so it makes them hypocritical when they condemn the current mass violence against their own civilians.
No, and you’re making a helluva lot of assumptions.
Roughly 1/3 of the deaths on October 7 were of soldiers. Many of the rest were friendly fire. Israel claims that such a ratio of civilian deaths is “acceptable” in wartime. The Israeli government frequently claims that there are no civilians in Gaza, and many Palestinians say the same about Israelis. What’s galling is that Israelis have been pushing these excuses for violence for years and are outraged that they’re now being used against them.
If you can’t see the parallels then you’re hopeless. For the record, it’s unacceptable that either side is doing this.
Everyone should take FDD with a MASSIVE grain of salt. It's a far-right neoconservative think-tank.
Edit: polling looks legit. I'll review more closely.
Edit 2: Turns out, Hamas falsified its support in polling conducted by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research.
Interesting, do you have any support numbers that is more recent? 6 months ago is a long time
I looked into this a bit more and two points:
Does it really matter? They supported it for at least a few months after it happened. They were happy that Hamas killed a thousand Israeli civilians and took hostages.
That being said, I mentioned it has dropped because of the consequences they faced, the latest numbers came out yesterday or the day before. It's now down to 39% support for the attack.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-poll-finds-big-drop-support-oct-7-attack-2024-09-17/
I don't care. They could've been dancing in the streets over it. It still doesn't justify genocide.
Even the IDF disagrees with you, those numbers were faked by Hamas to make themselves look more popular than they were.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/seized-hamas-documents-show-terror-group-inflated-its-support-rates-idf-says/
The IDF can't be trusted to tell you the sky is blue. Even if I support Israel's right to fight I'm well aware of how they operate from a propaganda standpoint.
They even say they don't think the Pollsters were working with Hamas, but that Hamas was somehow clandestinely changing the results anyways. Suuure they are. The group that can barely function is somehow tampering with the results of the polls without the pollster noticing.
"The IDF said the documents do not prove that PCPSR was cooperating with Hamas, but rather that the terror group was conducting clandestine actions to fraudulently influence the results of the polls."
All the IDF says is "we found confidential documents that show they changed the numbers," do you know how easy that would be to fake?
About as easy as it is to fake poll entries. The IDF also has a reason to want people to believe Hamas is very popular. It is a lot better of a look that all the civilians dying are super pro Hamas, than if Hamas only had a minority support.
The IDF wouldn't have said anything when they found the documents if they benefit from it not being known.
Never heard of working both sides of a narrative? They absolutely do want most people to think Hamas has a majority support by Palestinians. If you don't believe me, look in the mirror, and think about your own argument here. However, it won't hurt that narrative to post this, as it is largely framed as a "can't trust anything coming out of Palestine" narrative. The fine details of which will be lost in the fire-hose of reasons that Palestinians super support them, so it's ok to kill them, rhetoric. Just look up how many articles out there cover this, verses how many ran with the false data.
However, I know you are completely entrenched in your ideology here, so I am gonna stop here, there will be no changing your mind.
Uh... Sorry Palestinians don't want to be occupied and ethnically cleansed from their land?
Palestinians support attacking civilians in Israel. That makes it a war.
Yes, because Israel insists on colonizing Palestine. Zionism has always been a settler colonialist project.
How exactly do you "colonize" a region that your ancestors been on for 2000+ years?
Remember, the first massive waves of Jewish people moving to Israel literally came there from concentration camps, refugee camps, and other displaced locations because of what happened around the world wars.
Of course it was a settler project, around 6 million Jewish people were killed in the holocaust, you think they all wanted to move back in next to the neighbors that had ratted them out to the government? They got absolutely fucked, and the UN had given them their ancestral homeland back when it broke up the country that had been in that region and lost in the great war.
They're also heavily funded with money from Israel, who wants them to keep fighting. Per Netanyahu's own admission, Israel has been covertly supporting Hamas so that the PA can't gain enough power to actually make a viable Palestinian state.
PA doesn't operate in Gaza.
And? The point of Israel funding Hamas is that they would be able to continue attacking and thus let Israel continue disrupting the lives of Palestinians in both Gaza and West Bank, including expanding their illegal settlements. The entire point was to get excuses to keep destroying anything the PA tried to build as a government.
First off, I'm not even American so I don't support Vance or any other American politician.
Secondly, you support the American government, which killed around half a million middle eastern civilians in retaliation for 9/11.
Thirdly, if Israel was trying to wipe out Palestinians they're doing an absolute shit job of it. They're barely killing them faster than the birth rate and it would take centuries to wipe them out at the current rate.
Finally, no you can't say you support Palestinians and ignore what they stand for. You either don't actually support Palestinians, or you support their war. Say you support not killing instead, and drop the Palestinian conditional.
"You support the American government"
What a brain dead thing to say. Yeah, we do, because we live here and have to pay taxes. We only have so many things we can do as normal citizens, only so many people we can vote for. Seeing you say all these bad faith statements constantly makes you look like a troll.
Also, you don't have to live in America to support JD Vance. Plenty of non Americans support Harris or Trump, wtf are you on about?
You absolutely supported JD Vance. Dude linked it for us all to see. While you're trying to hang this strawman of an anchor around a stranger's neck maybe stop and check the UN definition of Genocide.
Furthermore you specifically supported his idea that we should give some people more voting power than others. We tried that. It didn't work. We're not going back.
"supported JD Vance"
"I understood how a single statement he made might make sense"
These two things are the same to you?
Even Hitler had a few good policies, and I sure as hell don't support him.
Even Hitler had a few good policies? In reference to a proposal for some people having more voting power in a democracy?
Lmao. My dude you are off the reservation. Please stop and think about this.
I'm happy to argue the merits here, the same as I did in the Vance thread. I haven't changed my mind on it.
Currently your country (and mine) have disenfranchised a massive group of citizens, anyone under 18.
You seem to think this is right. Why is it okay to disenfranchise any citizen in a democracy?
Hitler disenfranchised an entire group of people, and that was clearly a bad policy.
Trump likes McDonalds, I like McDonalds, that doesn't make me a Trump supporter either. So why do you think that I'm a Vance supporter for agreeing with him on one thing?
They're children. That's why. We could talk about lowering the voting age to something like 16 but trying to stan all the kids for voting is ridiculous. Using them as a precedent to empower their parents with extra votes is extra ridiculous. And this isn't a McDonalds, it's the most fundamental right in any democracy.
It only took almost a year, but reputable articles saying the willingness of Palestinians to be martyrs is wavering are finally starting to come out. There needs to be more of this because the perception of many is that the 'civilians' are actually terrorist sympathizers, or children being jeopardized by terrorist sympathizers.
They lost support when they saw the consequences of their choices. That still makes them terrorist sympathizers, they had to support it initially in order to abandon support.