this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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The Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar has for years overseen a secret police force in Gaza that conducted surveillance on everyday Palestinians and built files on young people, journalists and those who questioned the government, according to intelligence officials and a trove of internal documents reviewed by The New York Times.

The unit, known as the General Security Service, relied on a network of Gaza informants, some of whom reported their own neighbors to the police. People landed in security files for attending protests or publicly criticizing Hamas. In some cases, the records suggest that the authorities followed people to determine if they were carrying on romantic relationships outside marriage.

Hamas has long run an oppressive system of governance in Gaza, and many Palestinians there know that security officials watch them closely. But a 62-slide presentation on the activities of the General Security Service, delivered only weeks before the Oct. 7 attack on Israel, reveals the degree to which the largely unknown unit penetrated the lives of Palestinians.

. . .

Everyday Gazans were stuck — behind the wall of Israel’s crippling blockade and under the thumb and constant watch of a security force. That dilemma continues today, with the added threat of Israeli ground troops and airstrikes.

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[–] [email protected] 114 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Yeah no shit Hamas is an authoritarian corrupt movement. That still doesn’t justify the genocide on Palestinians and the apartheid, occupation and systematic rape, abuse, torture, and also the Israeli mass surveillance that is used to blackmail people or even track them down to murder them.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 10 months ago

If anything Hamas is the product of the systematic marginalization and humiliation of the Palestinians

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[–] [email protected] 88 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Looks like there's a multi-pronged attempt to shift the narrative to "see? Hamas is bad, so Israel is justified" today based on articles being posted.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 10 months ago (2 children)

People say the same thing literally any time there's a negative story about Hamas. That isn't how this story is framed. Israeli policy (blockade) and military are not portrayed as a relative good at all. It also speaks directly against a narrative by some Israelis that Palestinians bear collective responsibility for the actions of Hamas.

The idea that we must help Hamas cover up their crimes is a bad one, however well-intentioned. If they don't want their crimes and misdeeds reported by the world, they should consider not committing any.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago

Some people can't think critically nor handle any nuance. It needs to be black and white for them, which is why they can't fathom a world where people recognize that Hamas is trash without also thinking Israel is justified.

The irony being that their thought process is identical to the people who claim any criticism of Israel is anti semitism.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

"Their unelected leadership was spying on Palestinians, hence we're justified in mass murdering Palestinians to get them"

I mean, it's the kind of excuse that worked for America's invasion of Iraq to the point that even nowadays there are still plenty of useful idiots justifying the resulting estimated 1.4 million Iraqui dead with "Saddam was a murderous dictator" (and yet in all those years caused 1/100 of the deaths America did in far less time)

As long as people keep falling for any old bollocks then any old bollocks is exactly what they will be given

[–] [email protected] 63 points 10 months ago (12 children)

We can talk all day about how bad Israel is, but these guys aren’t good guys either

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago

There were some idiots like that, but anyone who wasn’t just being completely reactionary knew they were idiots.

The only good people in this are all the innocent, the problem is they are the ones doing the most dying on both sides

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Everyday Palestinians? What genius propagandist came up with that one? Israel doesn't seem to make the distinction.

[–] [email protected] 50 points 10 months ago (1 children)

My thoughts exactly. Nearly everyone agrees that Hamas is bad; what we object to is the grossly excessive violence being applied to all Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

When people shout “Free Palestine” they conveniently forget that if there is no check on Hamas, and if Hamas achieves its goal (and destroys Israel and its population), there would be tyrannical Islamist theocracy in its place. I do not know if there is better way to remove Hamas, I am not a military specialist. Biden advocates for precision strikes, but it might be just the election year maneuvering. But I know for sure, that Palestinians will not be free with Hamas in power. And if Israel lives situation as is and removes its troops, the same thing will be repeated again in future with blood on all sides.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't know what the solution is either, but I do know that brutalizing and displacing the entire population won't make the average Palestinian friendlier to the Israeli cause. Say what you will about the US wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but at least they attempted to be more surgical.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (8 children)

Anything else is more surgical than basically unconcentrated carpet bombing of the Gaza cities a few times over. But yeah, at least the U.S. had a bit of "hearts and minds" approach.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

No. Hamas was not popular until Israel stepped up its attacks on Palestinians and the corrupt Abbas and Fatah party did nothing in response.

If you want Hamas to go away, you need to actually empower moderates. Abbas lost all political credibility when he promised Palestinian statehood in exchange for nonviolence and couldn’t deliver. Israeli military opened fire on nonviolent protestors and got no consequences for it. Frustrated, the people turned to rightwing parties. Same as what happened in Israel.

If you want Hamas to stop being popular then you need to stop proving them right. Give people freedoms and security. Because the Israeli government has proved that diplomacy doesn’t work, nonviolence doesn’t work, and protest doesn’t work; the IDF still throws people out of houses and steals land. Abbas offered some deep concessions for peace that made him unpopular with his people (giving up Jerusalem, permanently giving up right of return) and Netanyahu refused without even a counteroffer. He wanted Hamas and rightwing parties to rise so he could justify his violent policies. He intentionally undermined Palestinian moderates and put himself into this mess.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Support for Hamas and other extremist groups is a direct result of generations of oppression in an apartheid state.

The problem is how to separate Hamas from a free Palestine going forward. Hamas claims that they would have no reason to fight if Palestinians get their freedom, and would transition to a peaceful government.

Obviously, that is extremely doubtful given all the other examples in history of militant resistances gaining full control.

I posed this question last time lemmy raised internet pitchforks when the US voted against Palestine joining the UN. Who would represent Palestine? Would people seriously be ok with a Hamas representative speaking for Palestine, or even just the western bank subsect?

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago

Priorities. Getting rid of a colonizer is more important right now

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The NYT has been shown to be biased against Palestinians, so this, unfortunately, doesn't surprise me anymore. I used to trust the NYT as one of the more trustworthy sources, but am reluctant to give them any traffic anymore. It feels like, at least in the US, the right-wing crazies have won because "mainstream media" (all media, frankly) really is starting to feel untrustworthy.

I strongly dislike nearly everything about this timeline.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Everyday Palestinians = Hamas' meat shields.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Everyday Palestinians = Israeli war crime victims.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 10 months ago (29 children)

Hamas or not, Israel has gone too far.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Oh, look, a Look-over-there New York Times article about how it's the merelly authoritarian on the "other" side that are worse than the full blown Genocidal Fascists murdering an entire population - men, women and children, lots and lots of children - whilst claiming they're only going after said autoritarians.

I did NAZI that coming.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Read the article, it’s very informative for once.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (13 children)

The documents were provided to The News York Times by officials in Israel’s military intelligence directorate, who said they had been seized in raids in Gaza.

  • None of it confirmed by secondary independent sources.
  • Both writters of the article are Israeli and based in Israel.
  • And the timing is convenint for Israel.
  • Finally, lets not forget the New York Times' very special track record of pro-Israel Propaganda.

So the sources for all that are Israeli IDF spooks, none of it is independently confirmed, the writters are Israelis in Israel, this newspaper has been caught not long ago printing pure Propaganda for Israel and the timing of all this "information" "coming out" is right smack when Israel is preparing to go into overdrive in their Genocide which is justified as being to "eliminate Hamas".

Curiously if all of what Israel says is to be believed (including what they provided for this "article"), they're killing Palestinian civilians in huge numbers to supposedly get rid of their oppressors, a level of doublespeak we hadn't seen since Bush caused 1.4million Iraqi deads whilst claiming America was "freeing Iraqis from the murderous dictator Saddam Hussein").

It's funny that whilst originally I was inclined to believe the idea that Hamas are pretty straightforward authoritarians with a secret police and everything, after reading the article with a proper analyst's eye (analysis of information being something I have professional experienced in) I have actually put that predisposition to believe it aside since that piece is written by people who are not even in a position to be unbiased, for a newspaper which is heavilly biased, anchored on paperwork provided by a single-source who are the spooks of the very army commiting Genocide and murdering children in cold blood in Gaza, and which of course has not been independently checked, and comes at a time when this type of story is exactly what the nation all of the above are biased in favour of would want to spread to reinforce their long running Propaganda messaging, so one can only conclude this hit piece almost certainly the most pure unadulterated Propaganda imaginable.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 10 months ago (10 children)

The NYT is garbage state propaganda with no more journalistic credibility than the Enquirer

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

The NYT definitely has problems, but saying it has the same credibility as the Enquirer just makes you look ill informed. 🤡

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

Please. Of course the NYT are far from infallible, but "no more journalistic credibility than the Enquirer" is just a ridiculous statement. There's a lot to criticize about their reporting on Gaza, but at the same time they've published some of the rawest and most eye-opening coverage of the situation in Gaza I've come across.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Running a hamas hit piece during Israel's genocide. You know it's going to be legacy media.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Regardless of how bad Israel is, Hamas is trash. Are we just supposed to pretend or ignore this fact because we are disgusted by Israel?

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Americans have to take a side and treat everything like sports, didn’t you know?

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (3 children)

It just doesn't seem like the most relevant headline right now, "Hamas still also bad" is a bit water is wet.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

what did you expect from a group created and funded by israeli intelligence to dismantle peaceful pro peace palestinian leftist organizations?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I know they were funded in part by Israel to destroy Palestinian unity and give Israel an excuse to kill more Palestinians and take their land, but was Hamas really created by Israel?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Maybe Israel didn't found Hamas as such but they certainly nurtured it like a baby bird.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

they basically created it in the same way us created al qaeda

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago
[–] [email protected] 29 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

Paywall and the archive doesn't work...

But it sounds like this was pretty tame compared to other countries.

Shit, Israel goes into Gaza and abducts people for torture and long imprisonment without charges based on social media and claimed statements to informants...

And this says Hamas followed people to see if they were having an affair?

And kept files on people? Some journalists?

Hasn't Israel killed more journalists than even Russia the last couple years?

I don't see what's surprising or concerning here. And I don't see where the article is getting their info either. Are they just repeating IDF propaganda again?

Nevermind, I googled it.

The author is from multiple propaganda outlets in Israel, and belongs to pro-Israel "think tank"...

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/experts/adam-rasgon

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Institute_for_Near_East_Policy

Although WINEP plays down its links to Israel and claims that it provides a 'balanced and realistic' perspective on Middle East issues, this is not the case. In fact, WINEP is funded and run by individuals who are deeply committed to advancing Israel's agenda ... Many of its personnel are genuine scholars or experienced former officials, but they are hardly neutral observers on most Middle East issues and there is little diversity of views within WINEP's ranks."[43]

Not only funded by AIPAC, but started be people with a bunch of AIPAC connections.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Oh look, the NYT manufacturing consent for the military industrial complex. What a surprise.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Two things can be true at once. Israel can be violating human rights with their war in Gaza, and Hamas can be an oppressive piece of shit.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This is a false equivalency. The NYT has historically been complicit in manufacturing consent for US foreign policy interests with coverage framing and agenda-setting. By choosing what stories to cover and how to cover them, they can promote certain perspectives while downplaying others. Another user in this thread already pointed out that the author of this article is a pro-Israel propagandist.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago

Has NYT only just figured out now that the nuance was never in Hamas being "the good guys" or not?
Hamas may be better than Israel right now in that they're not actively pulling a genocide, but nobody apart from Hamas thinks Hamas are really the good guys in this - but Hamas being a horrid government doesn't then somehow justify Israel's genocide against the "Everyday Palestinians" Hamas are oppressing.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

Governments spy on their own citizens? This is more shocking than learning Ivy League unis give preference to legacy students

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The Palestinians will be better off with hamas gone thankfully. High price for voting in a terror group though.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

Oh my god that's awful.

Nearly as bad as an agency that does that to their own people and that of another nation.

Not seeing a lot of similar articles about Shin Bet though. Wonder why.....

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