this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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Political Memes
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Is your assumption that third parties solve all our problems if they win?
The problem is the system, not the Individual actors involved. Yes there are some differences, but not enough to fix our current disasters.
For the sake of the model and steel-manning my would-be opponents I make that assumption, yes.
But you are correct, I heartily recognize this assumption is quite silly in reality.
This. If we're bringing math into this, then it's mathematically impossible for not voting / 3rd party to change anything in the same way calculus may not be 0 but near-zero enough to be indistinguishable. Combine FPTP with Electoral colleges with the power of existing political parties and the only way you're going to make change is by either one or both of the following things:
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Supporting one party so greatly you eradicate the other party, creating a vaccuum (eg, send GOP the way of the Whigs). In this situation, Democrats likely reconstitute themselves as the predominant center-right party while we get something of a social Democrat or true Green Party in their original place. A rubber-banding of the Overton window, if you will.
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Utilize an existing party to change the system. This means evolving the party, which for anyone old enough, recognizes how much Democrats have changed in the last 2 decades relative to the Republicans who have actually somehow managed to only get worse.
These are the only two proven methods to work. Third parties, Independents do not work until the system changes. And in order to change the game you need to first play by the rules of the game.
These are the only two proven methods to work. Third parties, Independents do not work until the system changes
the prohibition party got a constitutional amendment passed.
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The world would literally be a paradise by next tuesday if Vermin Supreme was president
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Sure, except the third party track loops back to the R track because we live in a 2-party system.
Correct, I have this expressed with the line:
Track 3 promises no death at all, but if collaborative action fails, track 2 wins due to a more cohesive bloc and everyone has to watch their children die.
...This, honestly, sounds like less of a trolley problem and more of a prisoners dilemma. As in, if ~~everyone~~ enough people defect, you get track 2, if enough people don't defect, you get track 3, and track 1 is if it's in between.
Of course, the problem, then, is that it would imply the people aiming for track 2 will defect, people aiming for track 3 won't, and people aiming for track 1 would try to convince people not to defect, while defecting themselves.
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Now this is my kind of meme; it actually gets into the details and complexity of the scenario it's discussing - while still making fun of it and keeping the meme feel - rather than just simplifying it to the point where it looks straightforward, killing most of the important discussion.
i disagree this meme sucks i hate having to think when i look at memes much less read 🙄
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Wanna pull your hair out?
Republicans are technically the third party in terms of registration numbers.
It's just that registered independents don't mobilize as a political unit, so the fact that they jostle with the dems for first and second place in registrations doesn't matter because the Republicans have the organization and systemic rigging to negate being in a position in America in terms of actual popularity more comparable to Canada's NDP or Bloc Québécois.
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No lies detected.
Unfortunately, this setup is not in practice different from the simplified model we usually work with, which is why we work with it.
yeah i find nuanceposting is valuable 90% because it makes the petty pedants shut up by not giving them a shred of ambiguity to fang on to
i consider it a personal victory that no one has accused me of being a genocide supporter in this thread yet, for example. unfortunately not the story for those who’ve posted more simplified models
I've given it some thought, and noticed a flaw: most if not all third parties have people on the track regardless. The "Party for Socialism and Liberation" (the most ML psy-op party I've looked into this season) has Ukraine on the tracks, for instance.
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this is possibly the best summary for US politics
i know and i want to scream, thank you for the feedback
You don't need 46% to defeat 48%. If you strategically target specific cities you can win the presidency with just ~~20,000 votes~~ 22% of votes.
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BRUH the children are ALREADY dying!
bruh i agree you are correct no need to shout
Track 3 promises no death at all, but if collaborative action fails, Track 2 wins
Except this is not what happened in 2016. Even if every single Jill Stien voter had gone to Clinton, she still would have needed 50% of Gary Johnson's voters to win.. It's safe to say that most people voting for the Libertarian Party candidate would have picked Track 2.
The post is primarily about 2024? It just references 2016 as an example of the electoral college screwing things up. Also the left leaning vote split thing literally did happen in 2000 so like what are your goals here lol, you can make your own post yknow.
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alright i like this one better
Portrays the other parties as all rainbows and kittens. Particularly that libertarians would be about fighting climate change, which they would not be in any vaguely effective way.
However, I'll grant that ranked choice voting would be an excellent way for people to feel better about their vote, be pragmatic, and one day lead to more viable "parties" (though not immediately, the third parties are a self fulfilling prophecy of unlikely candidates to most voters)
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