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It's weird that this has to be explained to Americans - this is how much of Big Tech got to where they are, except they call it "disruption".

BTW this shows perfectly that free markets are not a be-all-end-all thing. It's a tool, and if it produces outcomes that you don't like, you can adjust it for better outcomes. The hypocrisy here is not that they pretend to worship the market then cry foul when China enters it on their terms, but that they do adjust it for their benefit all the time, and only pretend to worship it when people ask for their fair share.

Ah, I see. So it's cool when we do it (fossil fuel and ag subsidies, the auto industry bailout in 2008, etc.) but not when they do it.

Got it.

I mean the US is also doing that. It's not a subsidies issue; it's the fact that Chinese companies are using subsidies to actually make things while US companies are just pocketing them.

Local manufacturers

You mean Ford, GM, and Chrysler who make useless pieces of garbage and also outsource production to Mexico?

Who also got bailed out by the federal government for going bankrupt back in 2009?

Lmao there's a guy who usually posts a long response to these "subsidies" claims bullshit, but I think they got into a pissing match with a mod in the comments and got banned lmao.

Jist of it is: China's subsidies are negligible compared to the US, and what they've actually done is created a competitive domestic market with a large number of players. Unless you think Chinese people are all puppets, even if China (as a country) owns the industry it would not prevent internal competition that drives down prices. Moreover, China does not offer per-unit subsidies on export. In fact, Chinese EVs exported to Europe are something like 40% more expensive than domestically for the same model.

Tesla has been subsidized by years. The difference is china delivers and in America an asshole get rich.

Logically the refutation is kind of easy. Your prediction hinges on two things. A predicate that technology will never get better or cheaper.

Both of those things happen all the time as such, the refutation is simple.

Points to our entire technological history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Seagull

Fwiw 100,000 yuan is currently roughly US$13,800

BYD and CATL have announced that battery prices will be halved again by next year.

They're really ramping up and it will continue.

You provide no proof of the facts you state, therefore it’s just as easy for me to say you’re wrong as it is to believe you. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Are Chinese subsidies really excessive compared to American subsidies? Tesla owes its entire existence to the government giving it carbon tax credits among other subsidies. Every single qualifying electric vehicle has been getting thousands of dollars in the form of tax credits all the way up to $7500 and it's only been more generous now since it can be used as a rebate right at the dealership. American car companies have taken that to mean they can jack up prices by those thousands of dollars and even more, because they still treat EVs as mainly premium products.

If you want to talk about artificially out-competing competitors, the 100% tariff is a prime example. The US has dragged its feet on technologies like EVs so they can juice profits and now it's crying and shrieking about competition being "unfair" for providing customers with a desirable product in a desirable price range. This protectionist policy not only sets back the fight against climate change, but also tightens the screws on customers who are already feeling the weight of inflation, just to continue the record profits by the auto companies.

Sorta like how the US runs the petroleum markets? You should go look at how they deal with softwood lumber too. Multiple WTO complaints for unfair trade practices. The US chose where they want to pour their subsidies and so has China.

They're not excessive subsidies. It's USA and Europe that are not subsidising EVs enough.

Any country or car maker that does not get on board with decarbonisation of the transport sector needs to be shut down asap.

I am sick and tired of people claiming that BYD are unsafe They have crash tested better than my current vehicle.

However, you can import many kei cars and trucks and people are doing it because they're super cheap.

https://www.eezyimport.com/importing-the-essence-of-japan-a-guide-to-bringing-kei-trucks-and-cars-to-the-usa/

Source?