Yo it's no stupid questions, not no evil questions.
this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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It is a terrible employer strategy that all but guarantees you will have a high turnover rate as people use their off hours to find better paying work.
It also ensures any public you have to face will consistently be interacting with a work force that could not give any less of a fuck, because you are literally not paying them enough to.
The only conceivable way this is a good business strategy is if you are either a short term seeking nepo baby, get all your business advice from one, or are yourself a complete and utter drooling moron who has never once taken even a beginner's course in proper employee retention.
Do. Not. Do. This.
Your best employees will be snatched away by other companies, offering them an onboarding package that takes care of the cost of moving. Your worst employees will be forced to stay with you.
Thank you. This is the right answer.
Every emplooyer's dream is to provide less pay. Not because of some evil thinking but every penny they dont spend on an empoyee is a profit.
During covid I was desperate for a job and when asked how much salary I expect I gave low figure and was hired. One year later another company offered me 3x my salary. When I told my company am quitting they nade counter offer of 4xc I still said no and left.
There is the old saying that "People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses." My advice is to go to therapy first, I think the question will sort itself out after that.
You’re paying for labor. If you’re the cheapest option retention will be poor, knowledge and experience will leave and your business will (and should) suffer.
Penny wise, pound foolish.
Pay peanuts get monkeys
It sounds like you're looking for slaves. There's a reason slavery is illegal.
If this isn't deliberately rage bait, there is something very wrong with you.
This isn't actually a serious question, right?
Gotta be flamebait.
It's insane to think it's genuine
No, their anxiety will be through the roof and they'll do a shitty job - all the actually good people will jump ship anyways.
The best strategy is to pay above market rate to attract talent and offer options to reinforce everyone's investment in seeing the company succeed.
Nope, it's a terrible one. Everyone will be constantly looking for new jobs. And would do the bate minimum to not get fired, that's the contract you're signing, bare minimum pay for bare minimum work.
Regardless of what you do, it's likely that you'll need multiple times the amount of employees to get shit done, because one dedicated employee is worth several doing bare minimum, depending on the job some works simply won't happen because no one gets paid enough to do them.
Besides that you'll suffer brain drain, i.e. anyone good enough will leave you, and they won't accept a raise to stay because if someone offered them double their salary and you tried to match it they would immediately see the bullshit you'd put them through and know that the only way to get a better pay again would be to get a new offer from someplace else.
Anyone bad enough that other companies don't want would be stuck with you, but there's a reason other companies don't want them.
You wouldn't be able to pull any new talent, you'd get stuck just getting people no one else wants because they're the only ones willing to work for that low.
Nobody has really answered the last part of my question. I'm not asking whether or not this is ethical, I'm asking how can I keep the employees who don't leave in a state of perception where they think I'm ready to fire and replace them at any moment. I don't want them to realize their position and leverage it against me.
I've been thinking about holding the promise of upping wage by a dollar and to keep pushing out the date as means of helping them realize how easy their work is. I'm not going to allow non-committed hires to devour the value of my business over what amounts to easy work. They know it's easy work.
What steps can be taken to mitigate this?
Be an employer of choice. What can you do to make people want to work with you, not out of necessity but because you are better than the alternatives. (Pro tip: if you're paying the lowest rate you're allowed to without braking the law you better be offering some other incentive)
This is pretty good satire, and I gotta give you props for sticking to the bit, LunchMoneyThief.
Why are you such a piece of shit? Or is this just bait?
I’ll bite.
Don’t make it related to pay. Make them WANT to work there, and then put a bunch of employment requirements into the contract that sound reasonable but can’t all be done AND accomplish the job.
At that point, all your employees are in breach of contract and you can just investigate and fire anyone who doesn’t seem to be providing value.
You’ll get a few people who position themselves as unfireable anyway, and some people who it will be difficult to prove they broke the contract. And if you fire people too often, you’ll again have retention issues.
Maybe the value of your business isn’t as much as you think it is, or you’re not charging enough for what you sell….
Seems to work for Walmart though
Only because they massively displaced a shitload of local business. Same with Amazon. If you have very little skills, where else are you going to work?
No, maslows hierarchy of needs mandates a lack of savings equating with a lack of stability at lower tiers and hence your employees will fail to function at higher levels. So you need to pay more than minimum rates in every role, everywhere, if you want to actually have people and not worried as fuck drones.
Now, how much more depends on local factors - but here's a quick rule: if they add value to your business pass on about 25% of that profit from that individual. Finding a profit for a person can be challening, this is why you get a HR person and accountants.
Wait so are employees lucky if they get 25% of the money they earn their employer beyond their cost to the employer?
That is, if I cost 100k including benefits and support staff costs and my work directly generates 200k profit over all costs, does that mean that the business should pass 50k to me and take the remaining 150k in order to follow the quick rule?
Yup, welcome to capitalism!
The money they earn is income, not pure profit. The business usually has other expenses that have to be covered. In that case 25% is usually not a bad deal.
I attempted to clarify that I understood that the income of the employee is not part of the profit
25% is a terrible deal and that was my point
There’s an alternative strategy of making it a place they’re happy to work at. It’s more expensive, sure, but it gets you better workers instead of only the desperate.
Happy workers stay longer and don't leave rotting fish in the vents right before quitting out of frustration.
Rule 1: No stupid questions.
Every question in the group is a stupid question. That's the point of the group.
We just aren't allowed to belittle people for it. We can't treat them as if it's a dumb question. We have to answer their question if responding.
This is why, minimal wage should be high enough that people can live. It's not normal, that in many western nation, a minimum wage worker cannot afford rent in non social housing and it still poor enough to be eligible to welfare program as soon as they have kids
If your strategy as an employer is how to keep your people in indentured servitude, that makes you a cunt. Be a good boss - help your employees achieve their goals and get to the next step in their career. That will help you attract newer talent when you need it.
No one wants to work for you because it sounds like working for you sucks. Nothing to do with money, you're literally just asking how can you be the shittiest employer possible.
Maybe change your attitude toward employment and treat people like they have value and they might stick around.
To me it sounds more like they have a dying business and want to hide this fact from the employees for as long as possible.
I worked for one of these once. And one of my skills is in retaining co-workers. Eventually we ended up with a bad credit rating, nobody would invest in the company, and the company couldn’t afford to keep the lights on AND pay its debts. It made/sold a great product that the market wanted, but some bad years racked up bad debt that the owners couldn’t get out from under.
So, eventually those of us who were left just wrote our own pink slips, got the owner to sign them, and nobody went back to work the next day. Owner sold off everything of value to cover as much debt as possible and declared bankruptcy.
Then they partnered with someone else and started a new debt-free company and hired back a lot of the same employees (it WAS a fun place to work when we weren’t having to worry about if we were going to be paid that month).
I went somewhere else instead, where my starting wage was 3x what I’d been getting at the other place, with options for bonuses and raises.
Is it good employer strategy to pay my employees just enough so that they can't save money, so that they can never walk away from the job?
Yes! That's how an average slave labour company works, you hire someone, you make them work long hours so they couldn't have 2nd job or hobby, you pay them at the minimum wage, you lower their self worth and self esteem, and you put up all the barrier of quitting that's actually illegal but they don't dare to even test it. It's the best strategy to keep yourself afloat and them underwater.
Like, there is a threshold where if they are able to save X per month, they will eventually use that against you and quit at an inopportune time?
Yep, there's two way of employee retention, one is pay them good and treat them good they can't even go through the bothersome process of searching job, another one is pay them just barely enough and trap them physically and mentally, drilling the learned helplessness into their mind so it's impossible for them to even take the first step. Of course you'll want to take the latter option because it's the best slave labour strategy and maximise your own return!
And if that threshold falls below state mandated minimum wage, what steps can be taken to mitigate this?
You move to another state with lax law and force your employees to move, of course! And if that's not an option, there's always gonna be a pizza party on friday night.
Remember, the less money you pay for your employees, the more money you pocket yourself. Get yourself a Titanic tour ticket, you earn it!
Let's look at Walmart and see if this strategy works. Yup seems to work.
I read it from the masterpiece book, How To Be A Slave Owner by Jeff Bezos
I don't appreciate the sarcasm. Things have become tight. And after some knuckleheads couldn't handle basic tasks in a basic industry, I have found we are able to operate with just half of the staff I used to pay. The ones who stick around know their worth.
What I'm worried about is that the remainder will also try an leave, knowing that I rely on them more than ever before. So my angle is to obfuscate the fact that I actually need them. How do I make sure they can't read me on that?
I don't appreciate the sarcasm.
Good. That's the point.
It's a shaming tactic that you aren't supposed to enjoy.
You’re making double, dole that money out, at least part of it. I recommend off the cuff giving COL raises and improving health care a bit - improving family benefits seems to go over well. Tell everyone you know they’re working harder, and you want to recognize this. People will propose new machinery that care about the job… build a case for it and show them where you see the numbers in the long term.
Maybe it's time to admit that you are bad at this and you should do something else besides trying to run a business. It's clearly not your forte.
There really is a risk, as an employer, that your employee makes so much money they want to work less. Which I solve by complimenting their work/life balance and this gets me hard workers that don’t burn out.
Sorry, I meant to say “no one wants yo work any more.” Apologies.
Good strategy is to pay me just enough so that I get too lazy to look for another job. If I can't save, I'm out ASAP.
Focus less on trying to stop them leaving and more on giving them good reasons to stay.