this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2024
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I was shocked in the presidential debate that Harris gave staunch support for fracking. I was under the impression that democrats are against fracking, and remember people being critical of Fetterman for supporting it.

I also grew up in an area that was heavily impacted by the pollution from fracking. People who worked in the field were seen as failures of moral character who chose profits over the health of their children. How is it that both major parties are now in support of it? I feel like I must be missing a piece of the puzzle.

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[–] [email protected] 92 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's because of the electoral college. Most states give all their electoral college votes to whomever wins the state rather than dividing the votes equitably. This means Pennsylvania -- a swing state -- will go either all-red or all-blue. The state has a lot of fracking, and a lot of people making money off it, so Democrats are trying to appease pro-fracking to get votes.

The people getting harmed by fracking are stuck without anyone on their 'side', but will presumably be more likely to vote blue because that side favors more regulation and pro-environment stuff. Note that all Harris said was she wouldn't ban fracking. She didn't say she wouldn't make it difficult to do. My guess is any attempts to make it cleaner will get crushed by Congress and the Corrupted Supreme Court that has sided against Unions, workers, citizens, and the planet -- all to favor of their sugar daddies. So even if the next President wants to do something about fracking, it would be a hard to actually do anything.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 6 months ago

That and because there are Democrats who are bought by the oil companies, just like Republicans.

[–] [email protected] 65 points 6 months ago (5 children)

Democrats have the backwards idea that trying to be conservative enough to siphon off republican voters is how they'll win, while they've got this mass of chronically ignored, disconnected progressives who they never serve "because they don't vote". And they don't vote because no one represents them.

Just eternally chasing that cracked out meth head of a party over to the right.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (9 children)

Without evidence I will say it's more likely that she has significant funding from the fracking industry and is under the thumb of rich executives. The difference is that they likely understand that supporting fracking could cost them the election, but they know that by not supporting it they lose a huge source of funding. They have weighed the costs, benefits and risks, and decided it's a risk worth taking.

A good solution is to get corporate money out of politics. There are narrow ways to achieve that, but a broad solution that fixes a lot of problems is to end corporate personhood. This organization has made steady progress toward that and I think is worth supporting. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Move_to_Amend. Considered signing up for their email list.

Another solution is more wisely voting. People don't vote in primary elections, but they're more important than the general elections. They determine what the field of candidates looks like. Vote in primary elections. You don't necessarily want to vote in primary of the party you most align with though. An obvious example where you'd vote in a different party is if you live in a gerrymandered district. There's a near 100% chance the gerrymandered party candidate will win. It doesn't matter who the other candidates are. Vote for the least bad candidate in the other party. You won't get everything you want, but you'll get more than you would otherwise. It will also force the party to change.

That's not the only time you'd vote in a party you don't align best with. Maybe you're relatively happy with all of the candidates in a party, so why split hairs if you'd be ok with any of them? There are so many considerations that the only advice is to keep an open mind about party membership, evaluate where you make the most impact (not what looks the most like you) and vote in every damn election, primaries included.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Fracking has granted the United States independence from OPEC, and turned the US into the largest exporter of oil. The US now has the pricing power on the world oil market. This has huge geopolitical implications.

Back in the 2000s it was completely different. All of the geopolitical wonks were pushing renewable energy as a means of OPEC independence. And now that independence has been granted, but we still have the oil.

Meanwhile, as others have stated on this thread, the immediate problems from fracking have been mostly fixed, including the earthquakes. Long term, I don't think anyone knows what's going to happen with all of that dirty wastewater going back into the ground.

So on balance, there's a good reason for the leadership in both parties to be on board with fracking: oil still rules the world, and fracking lets the United States rule the oil markets.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Yeah, and I’m fine with that short term. But only if it’s very short term and only if we use it as a brief reprieve to build out renewable energy faster than otherwise. That seems unlikely

[–] [email protected] 46 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 27 points 6 months ago

Oh I thought the sign was going to say “we have to sacrifice everything we believe in for the incredibly narrow issues going on in a single state because of the Electoral College, that’s how democracy works you dumbfuck” but my eyes are getting bad

[–] [email protected] 43 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Many don’t. I don’t. I’m not gonna vote trump over it though.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Are you gonna vote for the lying cop or the lying criminal?

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago

Probably the lying cop since a criminal is proven guilty?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 6 months ago

Because nothing matters if we lose the election and we can't win the election without PA.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What's more disappointing is that she had been historically anti-fracking. Tossed all of that out though, I suppose.

On one hand, I get it. To ensure herself a smooth election, keep the funding from your enemy.

On the other hand, fuck man I just want a President with policy that won't destroy the planet.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The argument given back in the day was “energy independence”.

The options (simply put) were 1) give money to shady middle eastern dictators 2) drill in ANWAR or 3) innovate in domestic production (fracking).

Renewables were still not up to par and nuclear was not seriously considered because the carbon thing was still an afterthought.

I’m not condoning this shit, I’m just explaining the state of play as I remember it.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago

Pennsylvania is a swing state and likes fracking politically. As Republicans support fracking, this could be the one issue that convinces some Pennsylvania voters to vote Republican over Democrat.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago

When they needed PA to win the election.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago

She's still a politician. It's easy to put her on a pedestal because she's NOT Trump, but without him, how excited would you really be about Harris?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

I'm not convinced democrats have been completely against fracking. I think it's location based as fracking does or can have extreme negative consequences on the surrounding environment, so doing it around a major city aquifer probably isn't the greatest idea. Fracking out in the middle of nowhere might be more positively embraced.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

Fracking technology has some potential upside in the climate discussion, https://time.com/6302342/fervo-fracking-technology-geothermal-energy/

A ban on fracking might not be the best solution if you want to move the technology towards something more beneficial to the fight against climate change.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Democrats don’t support fracking. They say things so they think will help them win elections.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Kamala literally voted in favor of opening new fracking leases, so kinda hard to claim this.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (8 children)

What is even the difference beyond rhetoric between these two candidates? They both hate immigrants and Palestinians, love Israel and fossil fuels, and neither have a tenable plan to improve the economy for the working class. Don't let anyone give you a hard time about not voting for either.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago (1 children)

One is a Russian asset intent on destroying America from within; the other is Kamala Harris. Your eyes must be getting real bad to not see that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's crazy how liberals are still doing russophobia.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (11 children)

Not really, since it's now public knowledge that the entirety of Trump-positive media is bankrolled by the Kremlin.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Well to start, one of them supports me having the same rights as everyone else while the other one wants me dead

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I’m saving this comment so I can make fun of it later.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

What scenario are you waiting for that you think would allow you to make fun of my comment?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago

Ok Vladimir.

[–] aubeynarf 4 points 6 months ago
[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

One is a idiot thin-skinned grifter man child cult leader who doesn't care about anyone but themselves, and the other is Kamala Harris.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

The vice president was a prosecutor who advanced her career by putting people in prison and fighting to keep them there in spite of court orders to reduce unconstitutional overcrowding. Trump's worst antics simply aren't nearly as demonic.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

demonic

Tipped your hand a bit there, next thing you know you'll be talking about "satanic" things and stealing adrenochrome from babies.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I believe you that harris is a piece of shit crook but holy shit that news article was so biased cant even tell if 100% of is real

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It seems like the fracking industry has cleaned up a lot of their shit? We aren't hearing the stories of water on fire, earthquakes in areas like Oklahoma, etc.

I'm just guessing. I haven't seen any criticism of the industry recently.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Are you trying to greenwash fracking??? Industry never cleans up. There's no profit in it. You would hear them advertise their 'commitment to nature' if they rescued one tree or bunny from their own contamination. When you hear nothing, they are continuing to wreak havoc.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sorry, no greenwashing, just guessing. I just haven't seen the criticisms like we had 10 years ago.

I agree that politicians don't have much reason to speak against it without pressure, but I haven't seen any pressure from citizens about it recently.

I could very much be out of the loop, so if you have any recent articles critical of the industry, I'd be happy to see them.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Putting the time and money towards promoting cleaner energy instead of banning older, dirtier energy. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Nothing about supporting fracking is ‘good’

[–] aubeynarf 8 points 6 months ago

What’s good is that it might get them in office so they can continue making incremental progress.

I got a heat pump this year because of the $3000 tax credit they passed - no chance of more incentives like that under Trump.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

Liberals aren't on the side of anyone but billionaires, be they neoliberals, conservatives, or "post-liberals."

The sooner you accept that the more American politics will make sense.

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