this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024
1022 points (100.0% liked)

Technology

70440 readers
2658 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Apologies for posting a pay walled article. Consider subscribing to 404. They’re a journalist-founded org, so you could do worse for supporting quality journalism.

Trained repair professionals at hospitals are regularly unable to fix medical devices because of manufacturer lockout codes or the inability to obtain repair parts. During the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, broken ventilators sat unrepaired for weeks or months as manufacturers were overwhelmed with repair requests and independent repair professionals were locked out of them. At the time, I reported that independent repair techs had resorted to creating DIY dongles loaded with jailbroken Ukrainian firmware to fix ventilators without manufacturer permission. Medical device manufacturers also threatened iFixit because it posted ventilator repair manuals on its website. I have also written about people with sleep apnea who have hacked their CPAP machines to improve their basic functionality and to repair them.

PS: he got it repaired.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 378 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

The manufacture should have zero say if their product gets repaired or not. The only person who can give permission to repair it is the owner. It should be illegal to implement tying to lockout parts being used as a replacement. Right to repair

They call it jailbreak because this is an issue of freedom: software freedom

[–] [email protected] 123 points 8 months ago (2 children)

They call it jailbreak because this is an issue of freedom

I support your position and the right to repair, but that’s not the origin of the term jailbreak in the context of computing.

The term jailbreaking predates its modern understanding relating to smartphones, and dates back to the introduction of “protected modes” in early 80s CPU designs such as the intel 80286.

With the introduction of protected mode it became possible for programs to run in isolated memory spaces where they are unable to impact other programs running on the same CPU. These programs were said to be running “in a jail” that limited their access to the rest of the computer. A software exploit that allowed a program running inside the “jail” to gain root access / run code outside of protected mode was a “jailbreak”.

The first “jailbreak” for iOS allowed users to run software applications outside of protected modes and instead run in the kernel.

But as is common for the English language, jailbreak became to be synonymous with freedom from manufacture imposed limits and now has this additional definition.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Thanks for the history and technical explanation. I didn't mean to imply that was the origin (for computing) and was only talking about a specific usage of the word.

I think most people say it to refer to manufacture imposed limits but I wanted to promote a broader usage. That using proprietary software is like being in a jail because your software freedoms are denied.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Oooo healthy online discourse. Where's my popcorn...

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (4 children)

I'd temper that by saying a manufacturer would need to provide a reasonable option. Some things could become dangerous or even deadly if repaired incorrectly. Or it could be dangerous or deadly to even attempt to repair it.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

In the medical field when a device can only be repaired by the manufacturer then you can expect long wait times, bad repair jobs and having your own equipment sent in for repair destroyed for "safety".

We let people repair their own car's brake pads.. we shouldn't give up ownership rights for a unwarranted claim to safety. If something is potentially dangerous then making it more difficult to repair is a bad idea.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (12 children)

We probably shouldn't let people repair their own brake pads but that's another argument. Not enough people die from randoms repairing their own brake pads. Repair an insulin pump the wrong way and it will absolutely kill you. Oxygen masks, CPAP machines, pace makers. So many medical devices that people rely on for life or death care.

I'm all for right to repair. But having seen some of the thing people have done to repair safety items I have serious doubts about the efficacy of someone repairing something wrong and killing their grandma. I can appreciate that not everyone feels the same way. I can appreciate that there are absolutely people out there who can and do repair their own devices, cars, machinery etc, and they may do it well. But there are always going to be people out there who don't know what they're doing but will try and then we'll hear about them on the news because they touched a capacitor or something.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

We probably shouldn't let people repair their own brake pads

What kind of auth-dystopian nonsense is that?

Repair an insulin pump the wrong way and it will absolutely kill you

You're just as dead if you can't get that insulin pump repaired or replaced because the manufacturer won't or can't support it. When they go bankrupt because other customers have sued them into non-existence, you still own the device they manufactured, and you still need it repaired.

Further, you presume the manufacturer can provide the best repairs. It is entirely possible and plausible that a competing engineer or programmer can improve upon the device, rendering it safer or providing superior operation. Car Mechanics can install a better braking system than the cheap, generic calipers and pads provided by the factory. Repair technicians can replace generic parts of medical devices allowing superior operation.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (5 children)

It's OK for manufacturers to say using aftermarket parts voids the warranty, it's not OK for them to prevent using them entirely. Likewise if there's a safety concern that should be handled by regulation and things like safety inspections, not by forcing all repairs to go through the manufacturer. If whatever it is is that critical to the safe operation it should be publicly documented so that third parties can manufacture it correctly to the needed tolerances.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 119 points 8 months ago (6 children)

Medical device manufacturers also threatened iFixit because it posted ventilator repair manuals on its website.

What the fuck is wrong with people. Anyone who opposes the right to repair for MEDICAL DEVICES is irredeemable.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Education and healthcare should never be for profit.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Please read this next line as if it had alternating/random caps:

"But capitalism improves efficiency!"

Tap for spoilerI'm on mobile and would rather not deal with my spellcheck "learning" anything today.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago

There's this app, I don't use it often but leave it installed for this

https://github.com/MobileFirstLLC/irregular-expressions

The option spongemock LeTs YoU wRiTe LiKe ThIs

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 112 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Keeping repairs locked into your system of parts/techs can at least feign “safety” or “quality”.

But essentially just refusing to repair is an absolute fuck you.

I’ve started choosing the companies I use based much more on the experience offered when their product/service DOESN’T work, rather than when it does.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 8 months ago (5 children)

I’ve started choosing the companies I use based much more on the experience offered when their product/service DOESN’T work, rather than when it does.

Easy to do for a cell phone or a toaster, but I can't imagine there's a ton of options for exosuits that correct your condition, covered by your insurance, that your doctor is familiar enough with to prescribe (for lack of a better term).

Some things are annoying to make abandonware, and some things should be criminal.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (2 children)

For me it's a mix of what you said and how they treat their employees/where they're making the product.

I spend extra time trying to find higher priced, higher quality, more fairly manufactured products.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago

Right it begs the question.

Is me not receiving care or having access to care REALLY better for me?

If the answer can't clearly be yes, then they are just choosing to make me ill or kill me for their perceived interests.

[–] [email protected] 81 points 8 months ago

A right to repair is long overdue but more than that when it comes to medical devices it's obvious battery replacement is going to be necessary and should be user accessible.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 8 months ago (1 children)

corporations are a problem we need to solve as a society.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (12 children)

Orrrr and hear me out. We just pass a national right to repair law.

There, problem fixed and we don’t need to burn anything!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (5 children)

aaaww but I already got my gas can and matches out

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (11 replies)
[–] [email protected] 65 points 8 months ago

Corporations are a fucking curse.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 8 months ago

any company who locks medical device repair should be burned to the ground. and dont bullshit me about liabilities bla it is more likely cash grab which they get in the form of "extra care packages" or exorbitant repair prices charged after the guarantee period ends.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 8 months ago (3 children)

For a $100k device, I would expect better long term support.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago

You would, but if there's no reason for them to spend the money on it why?

This is what regulation is for, and it needs to have teeth.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

They just want him to get a new one... Why repair a $20 battery on a perfectly functioning device when you can force him to get a new $100,000 exoskeleton?

This is just more capitalist ghouls doing the only thing they know

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 46 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Absolutely hate this shit.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It’s definitely annoying, but they have a provided decent explanation of why, imo

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The reason why is that they need my email address?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I hate not having everything for free also. What a bunch of jerks.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

How dare journalists be compensated for their labor!

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 37 points 8 months ago

there is absolutely no excuse for this

[–] [email protected] 36 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The right to repair is such an obvious good in the world that those opposed to it should be publicly shamed.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (5 children)

These companies don't give a single shit about shame. They care about money.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Right to repair NOW!

Medical devices should be either supported for life (with money on escrow to support it) or provided with all schematics, manuals and spare parts

Non paywalled article

https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/26/24255074/former-jockey-michael-straight-exoskeleton-repair-battery

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

Line must go 🆙

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

The CPAP lockout is something I went through. The company behind my CPAP does not allow you to get ANYTHING off the device. But there is an SD Card that you can get all the info you want from your old system. Its arbitrarily locked out.

You are also unable to repair anything on the device without insurance getting involved. And insurance is often at OEM prices (think 200+ for a basic mask). Thankfully, people have illegally added STLs/chips/parts/etc... online that you can basically reverse engineer the entire device nowadays. As long as you use medical safe materials, it saves you literally thousands of dollars. Ive replaced quite a few parts and the device is still working after many years of usage.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Medical devices are required to comply with 21 CFR 820 in the United States, which establishes quality management standards. This includes minimum standards for the software development lifecycle, including software verification and validation testing.

In the EU, broadly equivalent standards include ISO 13485 and IEC 62304.

If an OEM wants to do a software update, they at minimum need to perform and document a change impact analysis, verification testing, and regression testing. Bigger changes can involve a new FDA submission process.

If you go around hacking new software features into your medical device, you are almost certainly not doing all of that stuff. That doesn't mean that your software changes are low quality--maybe, maybe not. But it would be completely unfair to hold your device to the standard that the FDA holds them to--that medical devices in the United States are safe and effective treatments for diseases.

This may be okay if you want to hack your own CPAP (usually a class II device) and never sell it to someone else. But I think we all need to acknowledge that there are some serious risks here.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] RamblingPanda 11 points 8 months ago (2 children)

repair techs had resorted to creating DIY dongles loaded with jailbroken Ukrainian firmware to fix ventilators without manufacturer permission

How many jailbreaks are done by Ukrainian hackers? Wasn't the John Deere firmware from Ukraine as well? Nice job 💖

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Louis Rossmann should definitely get right on this case ASAP.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago

I agree, 404 is legit journalism. No org is perfect, but they're as good as it gets.

load more comments
view more: next ›