this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024

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We need to go back! Back to the terminal! (lemmy.nz)

submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

58 comments fedilink hide all child comments

A screenshot from Back To The Future. Doc has Marty and his girlfriend in the car, and is saying "GUI? Where we're going, we don't need GUI!"

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[–] [email protected] 60 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

Hard disagree.

GUIs made computers/operating systems accessible. In fact, I would argue that we need even less command line in Linux distributions for the most common tasks and even those beyond that. The hardcore Linux fan won't agree, I guess, but IMO that's one of the ongoing needs in Linux accessibility and wider acceptance.

Good example is YasT in OpenSuse. A GUI for much of the stuff other distributions require knowledge of terminal commands, though it really is for Sys. Admins.

Mint and its big daddy Ubuntu have done well for the average user. I hope that this trend will continue and companies will support Linux better than they are now.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (1 children)

We need to get normies on Linux. Full stop.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (4 children)

We did get normies on Linux. 70% of people use an Android phone. That's Linux.

Linux can be dead easy to use, and normies can get used to it. It's just a matter of the technology and the brand, both of which Valve seems to be working on lately. Linux is happening.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Android uses the linux kernel. It has little to do with what we actually mean when we say linux IMHO

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago (1 children)

then you should say systemd/linux /s

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 months ago

me: I use GNU/linux/systemd/Wayland/Plasma. what do you use?

my grandma: the computer

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

It's a lot easier to get normies to use Linux if you tell them it's what their phone runs on

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

And how much command line does the average user use while operating their android phone?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

None? As it should be??

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I am extremely confused about what you're trying to say with the meme, then.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I think they are doing something that doesn't require a gui

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

How do I access the CLI on my phone?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.termux/

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Every few years I buy a new computer and then install a fresh copy of whatever UI friendly distro that the community is gushing over. Each time has seen significant improvements but each time I'm spending my time in the terminal.

I'm not even a normie. I run Synology with docker containers. I operate my own website. I just don't wanna be in the terminal just to play my PC games.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I think the problem is that it's just easier to explain what to do for someone having a problem by telling them to paste a line of text into the terminal. Having to walk a user through gui navigation is a pain.

That means, though, that anyone getting help to get gud at Linux is going to mostly be leaning terminal commands.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Quite the opposite. Walking people through terminal commands is a pain. Cryptic commands that often obscure their true meaning and functionality, where every typo leads to failure.

On the other hand, asking someone to open "Software" and just click on the "Install" button of whatever they searched for is infinitely better than explaining how to update the package index, add a repo and so forth.

And that's just installing software.

New kernel? The average user shouldn't know about that. Just install it with an OS upgrade. File editing? Stop opening explanations with "sudo nano...", start with "open your favourite text editor". Or better: " click on settings and activate option xyz." And so forth.

I use the terminal myself. Sometimes because I want to. Often because I have to. I wish I had the option more often.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

But the opposite is true when you're by yourself. If you're staring at the terminal, literally infinite commands are possible. If you've got a GUI, the designers had to spend a little time thinking about what all the operations in the program were, and how to organize and access them. You, the user, then get to navigate this mini-help-guide that is the GUI in order to figure out what you need to do. Yes, it's more work for the programmer, but that's the entire point of programming. Do a little more work up front in order to save yourself and others a lot of work down the road.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

This guy gets it.

I just spent 5 days with full ADHD hyper focused trying to install Standard Notes on my Synology. Even with the help of forums and ChatGPT I can't get it to work.

I think the last time I tried a Linux distro, I couldn't get my gaming steering wheel to work properly and spent 3 days also failing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Drag agrees with you. Drag just had a funny conversation recently about a particular Linux tool that had a desktop version and a CLI version, and drag was asked which drag wanted. Drag would personally prefer to use it on the CLI, though drag is glad the GUI exists. And then this meme popped into drag's head.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Such a bizarrely stupid social experiment.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No, GUI is actually great and opened up computers to billions more people.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think anyone reading this can gather that I'm referring to this "drag" nonsense. Not for one second has anyone believed you go around IRL requiring people to call you "drag". It's blatantly obvious that you're just trolling because you think you can get away with it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Drag doesn't require anyone to use drag's preferred pronouns, online or in meatspace. But drag's fiance @[email protected] does gender drag correctly and so do drag's friends.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah this is what no one believes

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Welcome to drag, been seeing drag on lemmy for a while now so I just accept drag to use the internet as drag likes, making memes and talking in the third person

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Except that they've co-opted a practice of trans people who are genuinely trying to be true to their inner selves. Instead of doing that, they make a mockery out of it because most people are too afraid to call them out on the "drag" thing being a bullshit troll campaign.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Are you referring to yourself in the third person?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

No. Drag uses person-independent pronouns.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You actually do frequently post in the third person. For a recent example, you said

Drag thinks drag gets it, thanks!

That is structured as a third person sentence. A first person version would be, "Drag think drag get it, thanks!" Basically, you don't always conjugate for first person. Since your name/nickname and pronoun only differ by capitalization, though, neither form quite looks right in English.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 months ago (3 children)

unpopular opinion: notepad is easier to use than vi

[–] [email protected] 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Well, a bicycle is easier to use than an F16... there is a reason

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Not if notepad isn't installed.

Edit: Relatedly, I took the time to learn vi because it's usually installed already.

Nano is easier for beginners. Nano is similar to a curses version of notepad. Nano is also not installed and the server admins of the server you're shelling into may not be pleased with you installing it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

At least Nano comes pre-installed on most machines (I think at least)

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Imagine if the terminal in the 80s has had a line with auto-completion below the prompt.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Or a clipboard with notepad in a second window for quick reference. The amount of one-off commands and single use script kiddie code I had transcribed in my marble composition notebook was staggering.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What window? I was talking about DOS.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Right. I’m saying how great it would’ve been to have those things when all we had was CLI, just like your point about autocomplete. Especially for dummies like me who didn’t ask for help or look for resources and had to reverse engineer directory changes and command strings to learn the interface.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (4 children)

So do you pronounce it 'gooey' or 'jewey'?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

Gesus Christ, the gif guy was gust trolling with that pronunciation.

I hope

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 months ago

Ghe Oo Ee

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Ask the weirdos that pronounce it "jif" and watch their heads explode. They both start with "graphical".

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago

Jewey, yes

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Alright, we get it. You like VIM.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Vim is a TUI, that's basically the same, they should be writing that config file using echo, sed and redirects!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 months ago

ed is the standard editor for a reason

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 months ago

I've been using Linux since around 1998. Back then it was fair to say that the command line was occasionally needed. I personally prefer the command line because it is much more powerful, and I can do so much more with it. Shockingly, I do not use Arch. (I'm on Gentoo.)

But, I also maintain an Xubuntu computer for my wife. I haven't needed the command line for it ever that I can recall. I log in occasionally and it pops up a GUI prompt for me to install updates. GUI updater comes up, and a GUI sudo dialog elevates my permissions. Everything is updated through GUI. Everything my wife needs to do (including occasionally adding or updating a wifi connection) is done through the GUI.

(Don't get me started on their stupid mix of snaps and debs, though. That is a huge pet peeve.)

Re: command line - have you ever seen a person try to move a bunch of 1 type of file from one dir to another in MS Windows Explorer file manager? Best case scenario, they know to ctrl-click to select several non-sequential files. Worst case, they drag and drop each file individually. In the command line, just do 'cp *jpg ../destination-dir/'.

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