this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2024
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Summary

The “femosphere,” a growing online space for women, mirrors the misogynistic “manosphere” with toxic ideologies, including anti-gender equality views and strategies to “conquer” men.

The term describes communities like Female Dating Strategy and “dark feminine” influencers who reject liberal feminism, advocating traditional gender roles as empowering.

“Femcel” influencers urge their followers to give up on gender equality and use men for financial gain – in the name of feminism.

Critics warn these spaces mix conservative and feminist ideas, creating “anti-feminist feminism” that appeals to those disillusioned with mainstream feminism.

While less linked to violence than the manosphere, researchers caution against its potential for radicalization and harm.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 79 points 3 months ago (3 children)

In the femosphere, as in the manosphere, there’s an overarching belief that life is about survival of the fittest, that men will always hurt women and that will never change, so strategies are needed to conquer the opposite gender.

I'm not a massive fan of the guy they nailed to a tree 2000 years ago for saying maybe people should be nice to each other once in a while, but the violent reaction to that suggestion no longer surprises me.

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 34 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Look we just need to move around small bits of green paper and everything will be fine.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

And then the Vogons show up...

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 8 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Oh freddled gruntbuggly
Thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee

Apologies for misspellings. That's from memory.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

It's okay. The important thing is you counterpointed the realism of the underlying metaphor of whatever it was the poem was about.

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[–] Delirioum@programming.dev 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

That guy is a made up story. No more, no less.

Edit: oh my, so much salt. Just keep downvoting me if it makes you cope better with the facts. It's OK.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 45 points 3 months ago

That's not really my point.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

What an insufferable way to be. No one honestly cares either way

[–] Sixtyforce@sh.itjust.works 16 points 3 months ago (10 children)

Well that certainly isn't true.

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[–] orclev@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago (13 children)

What an insufferable way to be.

Well, it's more just not the appropriate place and kind of missed the point entirely.

No one honestly cares either way

Unfortunately this is very much not the case and that's a big chunk of the problem. There's groups out there that really really care (one way or another) and are more than happy to murder you and anyone else who doesn't all while telling themselves what great people they are.

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[–] dance_ninja@lemmy.world 57 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Wait, femcels are a legit thing? I thought that Lemmy meme group was just a joke.

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 31 points 3 months ago

"Female Dating Strategy", at least, has been around on Reddit for years and years.

[–] HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee 12 points 3 months ago

I think that the femcel meme group here on Lemmy seem much happier to just post about being horny and I think pretty clearly don't subscribe to this ideology at all.

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[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 52 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I feel bad for all the dumb guys who get robbed blind by all these con artist grifters. Whether it's someone like Andrew Tate or some OF model, they're getting taken for a ride.

If there's some young man reading this who has or is considering giving money to a manosphere grifter or some cam model, just know they don't know you, they don't care about you, they only want your money. You're nothing but a mark to them. Get off the Internet, go to church, or go to school, or to the library, or do some volunteer work in your community. Meet a nice girl, in real life, treat her right, and cultivate a real, lasting relationship.

[–] telllos@lemmy.world 31 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, don't give your money to people give it to the church.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 25 points 3 months ago

Ah, the original grifters for thousands of years.

[–] AmidFuror@fedia.io 8 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 12 points 3 months ago (4 children)

I think it's relevant, but I admit I failed to acknowledge a critical part of this situation: the ways in which women are harmed by these circumstances. Obviously, there are the direct effects of the kinds of misogyny peddled by men like Tate, but there are also the less direct and mostly unintentional effects of the broader movement that helped create the conditions that made the manosphere possible.

Liberal feminism tried to liberate women, but unintentionally ended up confining them to a different kind of prison, one in which they would remain the person primarily responsible for keeping house and caring for children, but in which they would also be the sole financial provider, as well. Liberal feminism convinced women that it would be liberating for them to take on both traditional, household gender roles, but all it did was saddle women with an even greater burden.

Meanwhile, the movement to make women independent left a lot of men lonely, bitter, and resentful, ideal for manosphere grifters and parasocial cam models to exploit. It really was a scenario that ended up making essentially everyone worse off. It also absolved men of any of their previous responsibilities.

I think people need to abandon the idea that freedom comes from independence. Independence can be liberating, but it can also be isolating, and burdensome. A person who lives totally self sufficiently, alone in a cabin in the woods is independent, but also lonely and saddled with the entire burden of survival. Many hands make the burden light, fewer hands make it heavy.

Where liberalism fails time and time again is in its antisocial tendencies. Liberalism's focus on the atomized individual so often disregards relationships of interdependence, or even sees them as antithetical or hostile to individual freedom. But this mentality ignores the inherently social nature of our species, as well as the absolute material necessity of social arrangements.

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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 50 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Sounds like a snazzy new bunch of nonsense that's just describing the age old concepts of prostitution and being a gold digger.

In a way they're acting as feminists by proving that girls can indeed do everything boys do, including being assholes on the Internet for fame and fortune.

[–] mercphilby@discuss.online 11 points 3 months ago

Yeah nothing new here. Just regression.

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 9 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Feminism is about equality. This is not feminism

[–] rimmedalpha 10 points 3 months ago

Idk, "equally shitty" does have equality in it. 🤔

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 33 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Lots wrong in this article...

“I used to be a feminist before I saw the effects of third wave feminism,” Batra said. “This has forced women into masculine roles where they are pursuing men.”

But that's dumb, for a shit ton of reasons it works out best when women are the ones who first show interest rather than men hitting on anything that moves

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I think if it were true that women made moves first sometimes, it would help all of society in ways we cannot even comprehend. It would not be a bad thing. But it's still pretty rare in the places I've lived.

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[–] NotSteve_@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Do you mean there's lots wrong in the movement or the actual article because that's just a direct quote

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[–] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 32 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Thankfully this is a community that was left on reddit. Same with the manosphere.

There seems to be a lack of gender culture war bs on lemmy that you see on a lot of other platforms. It's good that there is a pretty progressive consensus on gender here. Probably enforced by a legion of trans people, and to that I say thank you for your service.

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[–] WhatSay@slrpnk.net 29 points 3 months ago (8 children)

The gender war continues, and my nonbinary ass is sitting back and not getting involved.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 17 points 3 months ago (5 children)

The best part about being in the middle is that both teams hate you! /s

I personally identify as a non-conforming man and the amount of hate I get from traditionalists on both sides is deeply disappointing.

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[–] kshade@lemmy.world 28 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The article doesn't really address the brand of revenge "feminism" I've seen on that sub and mostly frames it as women who want to become trad wives because it's easy. What I've seen is that they basically want to find sugar daddies while also really, really hating men in general, especially the "low status" ones.

How did they get to that point? I suspect it's a variation of mean world syndrome, fueled by ideas like the poisonous M&M analogy (understood not as a call to be cautious but to treat every man as if they were bad) and seeing men and women as as coherent classes engaging in warfare. All watered down to simple talking points that fit in a punchy tweet. If men as a group do/don't do this for me then it's okay to be awful to any individual one because he's the enemy too.

Hateful, dehumanizing thinking. So yes, they do mirror the Andrew Tate dudes pretty much exactly, including being trans-exclusive.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

There was one female content creator who I was passively keeping an eye on who just went alt right. She blames other women for having more the ten partners for her inability to find/keep a boyfriend.

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[–] myusernameis@lemmy.ca 23 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm ok with this on one condition...

[–] Lennny@lemmy.world 8 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Fucking hell I lost

But so have all of you.

[–] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 3 months ago

The only winning move is not to play.

[–] Stern@lemmy.world 19 points 3 months ago (2 children)

On one hand? Woo equality I guess

On the other? This shit again? We gonna get a Femdrew Tate or some shit? Eesh.

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[–] nifty@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Damn, I worry this is going to create a lot of psychically and emotionally damaged people of all genders.

My advice to anyone dating is to protect yourself, but be open to the idea that someone may be a good person. If someone can’t be your friend, then they’re not lifelong partner material.

Don’t commit resources to someone until you get married, giving people money for a “relationship” is pretty much the formula of pig butchering scams.

Be careful out there folks.

[–] galoisghost@aussie.zone 15 points 3 months ago (1 children)

“It’s incredibly conservative, but it’s trying to reframe it as being this empowering strategy.”

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[–] pack_of_racoons@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 months ago (3 children)

My only exposure to the term femcel was from lemmy.blahaj.zone/c/femcelmemes which appears to be the antithesis of what this article describes. My perspective on some irl comments I've heard has totally changed.

Looking over at reddit for a femcelmemes equivalent it seems like r/femcelgrippysockjail is the closest but damn do they hate men over there. Yet are weirdly cool with trans women?

I'm assuming femcelmemes on blahaj.zone is ironic or just unrelated? Either way, going to steer clear of anyone who associates with that term cuz damn that's a lot of hatred and negativity.

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[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 14 points 3 months ago

They had this some 20 years ago, only then it was called “The Rules”.

“Femcel” influencers urge their followers to give up on gender equality and use men for financial gain

I'm kinda struggling with the math here.

You might be able to date several men simultaneously and get some free dinners and maybe trinkets and baubles, but it would seem difficult to get much more "financial gain" than that given that most men don't have enough money to say, rent a posh apartment for their side dish.

The only way to really get "financial gain" is through marriage, which of course is a game that has been played since the dawn of time, but is not particularly engaging content in that you need to be married for several years to be able to separate and carry off a significant chunk of the marrital assets.

Surely, if you had the requisite appearance and guile for any of this the quickest and easiest pathway to financial gain would be taking money from incels on onlyfans.

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