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We need the game publishers to face more consequences for shoving BS kernel level anti-cheats and not focusing on where it actually matters, server-side.
(Which would also solve the Linux AC problem by extension)
this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2025
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Game publishers: but server-side anticheat is ~~more expensive~~ HARDDDDDD
Most games I know about do both, but my understanding is it's hard to stop some of the client-side stuff server-side.
Look, we've been here before. I'm not super invested in multiplayer stuff, so I don't care that much, but I am old enough to remember when gamedevs would not even try crossplay and just let the PC be the wild west when it comes to cheating.
I didn't necessarily hate it. I lived in a world of dedicated servers where moderation and security came down to some kid in his underpants being pretty sure he didn't like you and kicking you out. I'm guessing there's a bit too much money and too much of an expectation of free-form matchmaking for the mass market to go back to that.
But hey, I'm not a security software engineer and I'm not excessively involved in competitive shooters, which seems to be where most of the problem happens. My interest in this is having enough PC security for crossplay to make matchmaking in fighting games less of a hassle than it used to be in the Street Fighter 4 days. You sweaty FPS nerds can do whatever, as far as I'm concerned.
You're right on all accounts, I oversimplified for humor. Server-side IS more expensive and does exist in limited ways. Rolling matches on dedi servers are highly profitable, unfortunately the old school days of matchmaking are over for everything except indie companies that want to replicate the nostalgia
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how do you actually tell in server side if a client is e.g. actually good at a game vs playing recorded moves with a bit of randomisation when you don't have access to into on what's actually happening on the client device?
as much as I love Linux this sounds like purposeful partial blindness from hopium/copium
You'll never catch all cheaters no matter what you do. All the kernel access in the world won't stop someone from having a secondary device hooked into the monitor output and faking a dumb keyboard and mouse.
A solid robust server-side solution and well architected server-client system will stop 99% of cheating. And no, Kernel AC is not part of a "well architected" system.
It's, at best, a bandaid for a shitty server-client system that introduces a shit ton of privacy and security issues for everyone that uses it. Shit needs to stay out of the kernel unless absolutely necessary, and that goes for Linux, Windows or MacOS kernels.
Almost every blue screen/Kernel panic I've dealt with was traced back to some shit hooking itself into the kernel where it didn't belong. And absolutely fuck third-party antivirus that hooks into the kernel too.
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No. It's a video game. Publishers have no business being in my kernel.
Anticheats on Linux don't have kernel access... Have you ever heard of people needing to type their root password to launch a steam game before?
Anticheats on Linux donβt have kernel access
Yeah, I know. I'd like it to stay that way. Furthermore, this is also why games with kernel-level anticheat still don't work on linux, despite developments in wine/proton.
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Where did I say I wanted kernel anti-cheat?
The post is about anticheat that doesn't work on linux. Non-kernel-level anticheat works fine now thanks to wine/proton. That just leaves kernel-level anticheat. If a game has kernel-level anticheat, the studio is not going to remove it for the sake of a linux version. Therefore, to be compatible with linux, they would be introducing kernel-level anticheat into a linux version. To this, I say "fuck no".
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"Sir, a significant market segment says we're ignoring them."
"Are they still giving us money?"
"Yes sir."
"Then fuck 'em."
"In which hole sir"
anti cheat with kernel privilege access? No, thanks
I mean if the game you paid money for is deliberately broken to shaft you, you are a clown for reviewing the game positively. Judging by the complaints of every game with linux-breaking anti cheat, it has failed to remove any of the cheaters.
And here I am, not giving a fuck about competitive online PvP.
Casual games require it too
The lengths people go to prevent cheating in single player games is astonishing. I'm really glad Paradox finally allows achievements on modded installs of their games.
Nope, fuck that. I'm not running that anti cheat shit on my machines, I just won't buy it.
Bro. That's not what is happening or being talked about. Most anticheat systems have a Linux flag that can be enabled, letting them run on proton without any sort of kernel access. Everything except Denuvo and fuck that shit in particular.
Iβm not calling for kernel anti-cheat. I just want all the multiplayer games to work.
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Sure. Harassing developers always works. I remember when everybody did it to CDPR about The Witcher 2 so they fixed all the issues and made a perfectly working Linux version of The Witcher 3. They definitely didn't swear off Linux completely.
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I dont disagree with this but i don't know about significant segment, thats kind of delusional
Yeah, Iβm Linux-only and have been for the last 17 years, but we are not a significant percentage of the gaming market. Still less than 3% last time I checked.
Otherwise, yeah fuck kernel anticheats that donβt even stop cheating.
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I'm not sure extortion is the best way to get companies to support Linux. I think market share is the only real metric they care about.
I'll settle for the old Rust approach, where you could still play on (or host your own) servers that didn't have anti-cheat enabled.
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Nearly 800 hours in Scum, now I can't play it anymore because it's missing Linux EAC support. Too bad.
SiGnIfIcAnT sEgMeNt
inb4 all of the "significant segment" gives me a total of 27 downvotes - I am a full time Linux enjoyer on all my personal computers. Including but not limited to all of my gaming purposes. And I'd love for more game devs to release Linux native builds.
I just don't have illusions about being in any kind of target audience for larger game devs.
The steamdeck runs on Arch. Games with windows-only anticheat excludes millions of potential players.
We actually know this number. As per Steam's hardware survey this group is around 2%, including Steam Deck players.
Best guess, Steam Deck sales are 5-10% of the Switch, which is in the same ballpark, so both numbers are probably roughly right.
Wheter you want to count that as "significant" is up to you, I guess. I bet the impact is very different depending on the game, even for supported games.
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There are 3.2 billion video gamers in the world, and 1.17 billion play online (numbers are from 2023).
"millions" is a couple percent. (As seen in the steam survey as well as napkin mathing the numbers from above)
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There's that "I never vote because politicians do not care about the issues of people like me anyway" attitude again.
(Hint: They don't care because your kind won't vote anyway.)
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If that segment of the market was significant, corpos we be bending over backwards for those dollars.
unfortunately for us, I don't think we're what they would consider "significant"
We need the game publishers to face more consequences for neglecting a significant segment of the market
MacOS?
^(please^ ^don't^ ^hurt^ ^me,^ ^it^ ^was^ ^a^ ^joke.)^
Yes, Apple should face consequences for making game development for MacOS so difficult.
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Gamers will literally beg corpos to rootkit them.
That's a slippery slope argument from a post that just says all anti-cheat games should work, I did not say I support kernel anti-cheat.
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The only game I currently play is KSP. I've grown so tired of all the crap out there.
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Are we so desperate that we want what is basically malware ported to Linux? Ew. I didn't tolerate that shit when I was running Windows, and I'm sure not going to start now.
I'll just keep on voting with my wallet, and not pay money for such user-hostile products.
I'm not saying I support kernel anti-cheat just that I want all games to work on linux.
Why is this the hot take? Have we not learned from Cloud strike?
The current "anticheat" is literally just the malware industry. Companies develop a anticheat and then the cheaters develop something to break it. The longer this goes on the more invasive the anticheat gets. It is a losing situation where the end user loses.
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