this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025

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A drone collided with one of the only Super Scooper planes fighting the LA wildfires, grounding a key resource (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

52 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Summary

A drone collision grounded one of two Super Scooper planes battling Los Angeles wildfires, leaving a critical resource unavailable.

The collision damaged the aircraft's wing, forcing its grounding, and temporarily paused other firefighting flights, creating significant delays.

The FAA emphasized the dangers of flying drones near wildfires, noting it’s a federal crime with penalties up to $75,000 and prison time.

Over 36,000 acres have burned, with officials warning that delays in air support allow wildfires to spread rapidly, endangering lives and property.

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[–] [email protected] 140 points 5 months ago (5 children)

It would be nice to have clarification that the drone was being operated by a private individual. Is it possible that this was an accident by another group trying to address the wildfires problem? I think the reason for that drone flying in the first place is relevant to gain some context.

[–] [email protected] 85 points 5 months ago (5 children)

This is the only speculation laid out in the article around the operator:

The drone operator has not been identified, but there has been speculation online, with many social media users pointing to photography accounts that have posted aerial images of the fires.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 5 months ago

Yeah, it's not just "America" it's "LA"...

Occam's razor is some shit head ignored important safety regulations for views.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Reminds me of the 4chan user who gave live updates of his bank robbery. People can't help but publish their crimes for clout

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 5 months ago

The Los Angeles Fire Department released photos of the plane, including one showing the damage. It said the plane was struck by "a civilian drone."
The Federal Aviation Administration has opened an investigation, and noted in a statement that it had not authorized anyone unaffiliated with firefighting operations to fly drones in the area.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-sopfeu-plane-grounded-1.7427777

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

My money's on it being LAPD. A cop would have just the attitude needed to think the rules don't apply to them.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don't know about the states, but in the UK. A police force decided to operate a drone for their own use. The CAA tried to politely educate them on the rules, and were, effectively told to eff off. A £35,000 ($43,000) fine was quite an effective slap on the wrist.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Article?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

The initial incident was this one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15520279

Unfortunately I got the inter governmental spat details from people involved. I work with big drones, and I've heard bits of it from both sides.

I'll see if I can track down about the fine itself.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

Indeed.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How exactly would a drone address the problem?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Detailed fire tracking. From the ground, it's difficult to tell if the fires is wrapping around you etc. By getting a bit of altitude, you can see what's going on, and act accordingly.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There are other options. Heck, fire bombers usually are accompanied by their own sorter aircraft.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's likely a scale thing. A satellite gives full coverage, but it's working at a large scale, with a long time lag. A plane is more local, with less time lag, but still quite a large scale. A drone is hyper local, with almost no time lag. Depending who is asking, all 3 can be extremely useful.

I can unfortunately see where communication could break down. Local firefighters wanted hyper local information. They didn't coordinate with the larger effort, and so the accident could have happened.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

And I think it was more likely some dumbass recording for their social media page.

I see zero evidence that it was some official operation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's what bird dogs are for (although I'm unsure if Cali is using them).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

...bird dogs? 🤨

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Bird dogs are small prop planes that monitor forest fires and help to liason between the tower and other fire fighting units (like helis and water bombers).

They're used a lot in remote regions where there are no control towers.

Each drop is carefully choreographed. A plane known as a bird dog arrives first to monitor the fire and draft a plan of attack.

Highly trained firefighters working as air attack officers sit beside the bird dog pilot and co-ordinate other aircraft on the mission, directing each drop to ensure the retardant hits the best spot.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-airtanker-pilot-wildfire-season-1.7219664

[–] [email protected] 52 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

This is a serious bummer all around. But wow, does that article suck on its lack of detail. But I guess actually digging into the facts wouldn't make for clickable headlines. "Oooooh, DRONES!"

There are Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFR) in place for that region.

Was the drone part of monitoring/firefighting efforts? If it was, that is a terrible error on the part of the sUAS operator and observer. Then again, smoke and fire, which would make for a less interesting story. "Drone participating in firefighting hits plane." Editor: Boooring! Let's make it vague so we can cash in on some drone fears.
Lots of drones won't even fly in a TFR zone. More professional drones will warn the pilot AND provide a warning about planes in proximity.
All sUAS 250 grams and larger are required to have RemoteID. Plenty of drones won't even fly unless the RemoteID is functioning fully. And if it shits the bed during flight, lots of drones will just automatically land. Again, except for more professional models or for small cheapies. So one of two things are true: the FAA knows exactly who the responsible party is, or the operator is an utter douchecanoe

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Lots of drones won't even fly in a TFR zone.

That's why I build 'em myself. I have enough common sense to police myself, I don't need a nanny drone telling me what I can do.

For anyone interested, it's super easy these days with modular parts and widely available open source flight controller hardware/software.

Keep it under 250 grams, and you don't even have to register it with the FAA.

Edit: this does not imply I don't follow the rules.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Based on this article, that makes you the asshole in this scenario. TFRs exist for a very good reason, it's not just big guberment trying to make your life harder.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 5 months ago

Don't worry, he'll "police himself".

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I never said I don't respect TFRs and regulations. A couple of my drones are over the 250 gram limit, and have a big fat sticker on them with the registration number, as well as a remoteID transmitter. I'm not stupid. It's just that a piece of machinery enforcing something on me rubs me the wrong way.

Believe it or not, it is totally possible for some people to respect rules put in place to keep everyone safe and not have to be forced to do it. To me, it's like driving a car that applies the brakes automatically every time it sees a red light, overriding whatever decision you have made. I don't want to live in that kind of world, sorry. If someone needs their toaster to lock itself every time there's no bread in it just so they won't accidentally stick their fingers in it and electrocute themselves, that's not my fault.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What if your self police don't have the most up to date news that would've been enforced via the transmitter?

If you knew what you were doing you'd stfu. Idiots copy people and don't know what they're doing. All your post seems to say is you're a braggart and probably part of the problem.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You know there are publically available maps you can check before a flight, right?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago

Which I'm sure you're doing before every single flight, right?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (3 children)

To me, it's like driving a car that applies the brakes automatically every time it sees a red light, overriding whatever decision you have made.

This is such an incredibly stupid analogy...especially when there's a DIRECT analogy with vehicles.

You have to register "powerful" vehicles with the government and you need a license to drive them. Like your kid's Power Wheels car (cheap drone) doesn't need to be registered. Your golf cart (racing quad) probably doesn't but a sedan (55lb+ quad) does. If you want to drive a semi (long range/commercial/whatever), you need a special license, too.

It turns out if you want to use a dangerous device in public, the government wants to know about it....you know, to help avoid flying their dangerous devices into the wing of a disaster relief plane

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You guys all don't seem to get the idea. I have no problem registering my shit and complying with safety regulations. I do when the vehicle itself enforces it. I have heard of no plane that will override a pilot decision because it thinks some aviation rule is being violated.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I guess some people's point is that if the automated restrictions that come with those aren't used maliciously or commonly problematic, it shouldn't really be a big deal for it to exist. In fact, that they do exist is probably a good thing because it prevents amateurs from making potentially hazardous mistakes, given there really aren't any other controls on who can operate them.

From the sound of your initial post, it sounded like you were primarily building your own to evade these automated restrictions, but I'm going to assume you're more of an enthusiast and just don't add those features to what you build, and you build things for that intrinsic joy and customizability. If true, I think given your level of familiarity and expertise, that feels generally reasonable.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah no way in hell I'd ever do something as stupid as fly in a TFR. Everything I do is in order, legally.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You have to register "powerful" vehicles with the government and you need a license to drive them. Like your kid's Power Wheels car (cheap drone) doesn't need to be registered.

They guy you are responding to mentioned:

Building drones under the 250 gram limit (analagous to building your own toy power wheels car that’s too small to be regulated)
Building drones over the 250 gram limit and registering them and following the relevant rules (analagous in your example to having some sort of hobby project car and going through the proper channels to get it certified as street legal).

Seriously what’s wrong with someone having a hobby?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How do you explain ultralight aircraft not needing to be registered and their operation licensed, per FAR-103?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

If I had to guess? Risk of killing someone other than yourself. They're the go karts of planes

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 5 months ago (1 children)

It's not all bad news. Mel Gibson's house burned down.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago

And James Woods'.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They should brand that fucker with the smoldering remains and parade them around town so we can all take turns peeing on them

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Yup. That's a H U G E hole in the leading edge of the wing.

I mean that's the kind of shit that brings planes down.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

For anyone interested, the plane is the CL-415 and the following video shows how it loads up with water.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cHuoXD_VmBs

Now imagine what could have happened if that fucking drone had hit the wing while the plane was 20 ft off the water.

I hope they catch that asshole and fine him big time.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Can someone tell me more about how a drone took down a plane?

Unrelated: anyone got a link to that mastodon account that tracks Elon Musk's jet?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The drone impacted and penetrated the leading edge of one of the wings. The leading edge is thin for weight but its shape is what makes wings work, also a hole in the leading edge allows pressure to be applied to the inside of the wing which is not one of the directions it's designed to withstand.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Thanks. Would this have the same effect if the plane was carrying a payload of a few people who have billions of dollars in their bank accounts?

Or would it only happen with a payload of water weight?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

It could have been worse, if the plane had a jet engine damage to the turbine in the front of the engine could have been catastrophic. The high speed carefully balanced spinning blades could tear the entire engine apart if damaged.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

If that drone doesn't have a very valid, emergency services type reason to be there, that would make the operator an irresponsible asshole.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Having working in the field for a few years, the amount of utterly irresponsible assholes would shock you. I was on a few hundred thousand hectare fire, and someone was flying their small personal aircraft over the area repeatedly. He was arrested when he landed at the nearest airport, but for a few hours all the helicopter support was grounded because of one jackass who wanted a better view.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

My guess is it's an LAPD operator. The civilians stayed out of the restricted airspace. Some chud cop thinks the rules don't apply to him, so he flies a drone in an unauthorized zone. He manages to hit a firefighting plane. And the LAPD quickly sweeps the whole thing under the rug and blames it on a never-found civilian.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Nice. Fucking nice.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Marrone warned that federal officials were monitoring the area and had the ability to identify who was flying drones.

What with all the drone hysteria in NJ this is amusing.

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