Overview:
Electric Vehicles are a key part of our tomorrow and how we get there. If we can get all the fossil fuel vehicles off our roads, out of our seas and out of our skies, we'll have a much better environment. This community is where we discuss the various different vehicles and news stories regarding electric transportation.
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Abysmal range and the top speed is unsuitable for highways. The same mistakes that every other electric motorcycle manufacturer is making.
Electric motorcycles will need to be heavier to achieve both range and top speeds that are suitable.
There is only a tiny market for these bikes and they’re not doing anything new, and they’re more expensive.
Why is 80 mph / 130 kmh too slow for highways?
Can you point to a car that is limited to 130kmh? Add that to the range dropping dramatically when using these bikes at highway speeds where you would be lucky to see a 100km range.
Lower range means more recharging cycles, which means shorter battery life, which means higher running costs.
It's also too low because I'd rather not become a hood ornament for some road rager where the safest solution is to drop a gear and disappear.
That's not to mention the fun factor and taking it to a track. Even little bikes like the Kawasaki Ninja 400 and Honda CBR300 have higher top speeds.
electric motor producing 47 hp (35 kW) and 53 lb-ft of torque, which is comparable to a 700 cc combustion engine.
Also you can easily tell this isn't written by a motorcyclist because it isn't remotely comparable. That's less power than my 600cc single cylinder motorcycle puts out at 55 hp, and less than half of what my 600cc 4 cylinder ZX6R puts out at 113 hp.
In fact its reasonably close to the 45hp my FZR250 puts out, which as the name implies is a 250cc 4 cylinder, and that's a 30 year old motorcycle.
Yes someone could quote Harley's abysmal HP numbers for their oversized engines but they're quite literally 1950s tech and not remotely relevant to the discussion.
That's without even mentioning gearing which allows my 55 hp single cylinder motorcycle to reach 160kmh and my ZX6R tops out at 280kmh (gps measured, stock gearing).
TLDR: range, safety and fun are all missing.
Can you point to a car that is limited to 130kmh?
Not exactly 130km/h but plenty of cars are limited to 140km/h or very close to it, for example the Hyundai Inster.
You're not allowed to drive faster than 130 km/h here and more and more highways are switching to 100 km/h, so I'm not sure why my vehicle should be able to drive 280 km/h. Even more so on a motorcycle.
On a track? Sure, but I don't need my average commuter vehicle to reach those speeds.
Commuters don't buy a lot of motorcycles (comparatively) in Western countries which given the price tag, is where this is intended to sell.
Motorcyclists like me do commute on motorcycles but I'm an enthusiast and so are most of those other commuting motorcyclists.
so I’m not sure why my vehicle should be able to drive 280 km/h. Even more so on a motorcycle.
No prizes here for guessing that you're not into cars or motorbikes. And why would someone own two vehicles when one can commute and hit the track unless you're particularly dedicated to track riding?
Lets put it this way... are you going to buy one? Because I'm not and I'm mad about motorcycles.
Fair point on a speed limited car, personally I also wouldn't buy one of them.
You said it is unsuitable for highways, I don't consider vehicles that go the speed limit on the highway unsuitable for it. Unsuitable for motorcycle enthusiasts? Probably.
No prizes here for guessing that you're not into cars or motorbikes.
Define "into". My car goes 230 km/h and I have driven that speed...once, maybe twice. Does not mean I don't enjoy accelerating up curvy mountain roads.
If my future car has the same acceleration but is limited to 140 km/h, I wouldn't care that much.
Lets put it this way... are you going to buy one?
This one? Unlikely, but not because of the 130 km/h limit but because of the price. I consider motorcycles unpractical and unsafe for daily use, so the only use would be for fun. I would love one for sunny days but they have to get cheaper.
It’s unsuitable for highway use because car drivers are prone to murderous tantrums when they’re stuck behind someone actually doing the speed limit.
That’s just my opinion but too many motorcyclists who disagreed aren’t alive to argue the point.
Petrol powered motorcycles are plenty of fun and available cheap. If you were really interested in some weekend riding you could make that a reality any time.
I suspect you won’t regardless of price because most people don’t get into motorcycles, probably in part because most people just about shit themselves in terror the first time an SUV tailgates them at highway speeds.
How can they be stuck behind you on a highway thats very likely have 2 lanes? And if traffic is heavy enough they cant pass... you're likely not going 80mph either. Seems really silly.
Then I invite you to commute on a route with highways on one of these for a year and share your experiences because I’ve been riding for 20 years and Im speaking from my experience.
This seems comparable to the Evoke Urban Classic, which is a city commuter motorcycle.
As to similar cars, the Dacia Spring is a very popular car in my country that is somewhat similar. It costs more, since it is a car, and it has very slightly longer range. But it has also much slower acceleration. It is also intended as a city commuter.
These are not sports vehicles or for motor enthusiasts.
Our high-capacity 10.04 kWh lithium ion battery pack... 200+ Nm from our fully electric hub motor
Compared to 8.9 kWh and 71 Nm from the Can-Am, as I said it isn't doing anything new or even doing anything better.
These are not sports vehicles or for motor enthusiasts.
I agree and I expect they won't sell many as a result.
drop a gear and disappear
Love it! I got out of more trouble by going to warp on a motorcycle than hitting the brakes.
I don't think it's that simple. An EV motorcycle with a top speed of 120 and a range of, say, 250 miles would be as heavy and expensive as a compact car. The weight and expense of an EV, regardless of how many wheels it has, is all tied up in the batteries. Motorcycles work as a concept because they strip out all the weight and space of the chassis and gas engines have amazingly good range to weight ratios. EVs are awesome and I'd love to buy a motorcycle like this some day for city riding but they don't scale well for range.
As someone who owns six motorcycles and is currently eyeing a 7th believe me, I know what makes them work as a 'concept' and range to weight is a very odd metric. Generally it is power to weight for motorcycles in Western countries, or even just power.
I would happily trade 50kg on an electric motorcycle to double the range, which seems a reasonable guestimate as the total weight is a claimed 177kg.
It's almost a certainty I will buy an electric motorcycle at some stage but without the range they're useless to me, without the top speed they're dangerous in certain situations, and not appealing to enthusiasts.
No I dont think you could double the range for 50kg, not even close. So, the can am pulse has a 9kwh battery, which weighs at least 50kg, but you can't just slap two of those battery packs on there and double the range because the weight of the bike just went up 30%. Also, you have to find space for another huge battery pack which will almost certainly increase drag.. Finally you are probably going to have to build the frame stronger which is another vicious circle. I'd bet you only get 60-70% extra range by doubling the size if the battery pack. Double it a second time and you might only get an additional 50% or less.
The Damon Hypersport Premier has a 20 kWh battery and a claimed weight of 217kg so my educated guess doesn’t seem far off.
Yeahhhh that isn't a real bike though. I got excited but the more I look into it the more it looks like just vaporware. Assuming 4kg per kWh that's 80kg in the battery alone. No way can you make a whole motorcycle with a top speed of 200mph for 140kg minus the battery.
They do have some prototypes but scaling to production for these sort of startups is always the killer.
No way can you make a whole motorcycle with a top speed of 200mph for 140kg
Why not? My ZX6R with a sprocket change will hit 200mph and it weighs 190kg including fuel. Take out the fuel, engine, sprockets, chain and it would be about 140-145kg. Add battery and hub motor.
Seems pretty simple really.
I think you are being loosey-goosey with your numbers. Nobody online seems to be able to get a stock zx6r above 160 mph. Sorry, I'll believe it when I see it... if making a high-performance 200-mile-range motorcycle was as simple as adding a bigger battery somebody would have done it by now. The demand is there. But I think the sacrifices to performance and added cost would make that kind of bike-if not physically impossible-at least impractical to build.
The first motorcycle to break 300kph was a Triumph powered Streamliner in 1956 ridden by John Allen with a 650cc parallel twin running on methanol.
A standard 650cc parallel twin from Triumph at the time produced around 34 hp, with race cams, pistons, air intake and exhaust and running methanol that could go as high as maybe 65hp at the crank. Maybe.
A streamliner is more aerodynamic than a ZX6R however the ZX6R puts out 113-116 hp at the wheel... without RAM air. Change the sprockets and it'll do 300kph, which to be fair isn't 200mph but freedom units were never my strong suit.
The electric motorcycle industry always seems to fuck it up a little, often by aiming at the way top end of price, and putting in a motor that's way too big, and yet limiting the top speed. It can accelerate from a stop to 80 miles per hour in 5 seconds flat, and then that's it, that's all it can do. For about an hour, using up its 80 mile highway range before it needs to be charged for an hour and a half.
My Ninja 250 cost $4000, weighed about 300 pounds, had a top speed of 130, performed like a hot hatchback or Mazda Miata, held just under 5 gallons of gas and made just about 70 miles per gallon, for an effective range of about 300 miles on a tank.
I've gone on road trips that outright wouldn't have been possible on this thing, and many more that would have added days to the trip having to wait for the bike to recharge 50% of the time.
I've also seen very little in the way of electric scooters, the 30mph moped Vespa style. Perfect machine for electrification, it needs to go 30 miles per hour and make 100 miles on a charge. This should be doable.
These do look interesting! I've been considering an electric motorcycle as a second vehicle to use for commutingand those prices are comparable to their gasoline counterparts.
There are some cheaper options, like getting a used Zero e moto
I mean... you can get a gas motorcycle with those specs for less than 2k in good condition used (I did exactly that in college). I still think it's a fair price for a new EV motorcycle though.
Why do all electric motorcycles look like an ‘80s idea of the future or a dirt bike? Why can’t we get a touring / cruiser style bike? I can deal with a 100 mile range, but I won’t be riding one till they look like a normal bike.
You can deal with 100 mile range on a touring bike? Sounds like you need a moped, not a goldwing.
What one needs is usually a lot less than what one wants. I honestly could get by with a pedal assist bicycle. And yes 100 miles is passable because isn’t far off what my Valkyrie (same engine as a Goldwing ) gets on a full tank.
Is it suitable for an all day ride? No, but it still wouldn’t be if it had a 200 mile range. But it would suit all my regular needs and look like what I want it to look like.
True battery tech is not there yet. Even with the new sodium batteries, it's still not good enough for a motorcycle
How about LIPO4? I got one for my trolling motor and it's a dream, never come close to running it down on a single trip and only bother charging it every 2-3 outings, and only that often to cover my ass.
I think LIPO4 batteries are less dense than the standard lithium ion battery.
They are indeed larger! My 12.6V I was talking about is about double the size of a lead car battery, but much of that is also empty space. I'd trade that space for runtime any day. Apparently that doesn't work out for small vehicles?
14k is a lot for a glorified scooter.
53 lb feet of torque in a 400lb frame is a scooter to you!? bruh, those are incredible specs for an ev motorcycle this price