Ask Lemmy

You're not wrong, but you've got a bit of an extreme take on it. I think you and your parents may have different thoughts on what it means to "approach" a woman though. I'm going to use "flirt" to refer to talking to a woman with intent of seeing if they would make a good partner for you and just "talk" to indicate just being friendly with someone.

it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman who doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers

No, it's fine to talk to strangers of any gender in public. Approaching them and flirting with them is not. As long as you can roughly understand when you're making someone uncomfortable and stop it, you're not going to come off as a creep/predator. Stuck in a lineup in a store? Chat with someone beside you, maybe commiserate about how long the line is. If you want to flirt with them, then yes the situations you mentioned are definitely the places to do that.

(sort of an aside: whether "meeting friends of friends" is an appropriate situation to flirt with someone you just met is still situation dependent)

They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner.

Approaching women in random public spaces with the intent of finding a partner is also a pretty bad idea. While it could work, it's definitely creep/predator behaviour so I avoid it. It's very likely to make them uncomfortable, since they're just trying to do their thing not get hit on. This can easily be harassment, though I'm on the fence on whether it's always harassment.

Personally I like to flip the genders on situations like this and ask if I'd want to be the other person in this situation. It's worth keeping in mind that woman have way more statistical reasons to be weary/wary of any interaction with men, though. Regardless, e.g. if some woman was beside me in line and started chatting with me, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me and complimented my shirt, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me, complimented my shirt, and then asked for my number I'd be weirded out (I don't know you, lady). If some woman came up to me and asked me to take out my earbuds to commiserate about how long the line is, I'd be annoyed that I'm missing my music.

Your parents are right. It is absolutely a skill that you should learn. The 'times have changed' crowd just haven't stepped up to the new level of difficulty.

It is not wrong to strike up a conversation with a stranger so long as the setting is appropriate and you pick up on the clues they give on whether the interaction is welcome or not. That is the skill you're learning.

Whether it is technically 'necessary' is debatable, but it is antisocial to flat out avoid doing so by definition.

Instead of making a move or straight up asking the out on a date. Just strike up a convo. You can really tell when someone doesn't want to push a conversation. Maybe they find you attractive and keep the conversation going?

If you want to cold approach, go to the club.

Some people enjoy casual chat with random people, and some people find it annoying. There's no right or wrong answer. It's definitely not the only way to meet romantic partners, though, especially these days.

It is an important skill and confidence booster to approach people in general in public. If you are uncomfortable with women, then start with men.

If that is still uncomfortable, then that means you are uncomfortable to talking with strangers in general. Unfortunately, experience is the only way to combat this. Start small with chit chat in lines, compliment people on their shoes, etc.

Yes and no. Now I'm not an expert womanizer by any means, but you kinda just gotta treat attractive women like regular people.

You can't just walk up to somebody and go "ooga booga, wanna go out?" It's gotta be a little casual. So you're kind of right. But to go as far as to say you can't strike up conversation with somebody will be insane.

Now am I going to strike up a conversation with an attractive woman? Nah I'm go pussyshit to do anything, I'll partake in my recreational activities and hope for the best, at least I'll die doing what I like.

Your instincts are probably well placed. Obviously different people will have different preferences and reactions in this regard, but you're better off getting to know people in a friendly manner than just for the sake of finding a partner. Learning how to strike up conversations with strangers and leave them wanting for more is useful, but that's about all I'd say your parents are right about.

Personally I think everyone is wrong here, but none of it in a mean or jerky way, just in perspective .

For your parents, it's definitely a different vibe now, we need to be more socially conscious about walking up to a woman, we should understand that that is inherently a dangerous place for a woman and she is likely on her guard.

That being said, you shouldn't be afraid to speak to women either, that is likely just as bad. Women are just people, they have like and dislikes, and you should talk to them the same way you would anyone.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that the days of pickup lines and sauntering over are gone. But there's absolutely nothing wrong striking up a conversation either, and in fact I encourage it. Notice things, maybe they're wearing a band T-shirt of a band you like, maybe they have a cool sticker on their phone or laptop, show interest. Don't be afraid of them.

When your parents say, "did you talk to any of them," they mean did you strike up a conversation with a woman with no presumption of potential romantic outcome.

When you say it, it seems like you're assuming there's a potential for a romantic outcome in every conversation between heterosexual men and women.

Your goal should be to strike up a conversation with a woman about random topics of interest, including very shallow ones, with no expectation that you're evaluating her as a potential mate, and she's not evaluating you.

Yes, we're all subject to intrusive thoughts so from time to time, you'll fail at this goal and start thinking about a romantic path. That's fine. Just acknowledge it to yourself and endeavor to do better.

It will probably take time and practice. Give yourself grace to try and fail and learn. You'll know you're succeeding when you realize you had a conversation with a woman without her gender being a consequential thought in your mind.

So, this is one of the unfortunate traps of our time, especially if you live in a place with car dependent sprawl. Women don't want to be solicited while at work or on personal business (groceries, gym, etc), and, really, nobody does. You want to work at work, and you want to do your business and go home otherwise. This goes doubly or triply so for complete strangers. There's really no third places (as they're called) left, where people go for the express purpose of being social and together. That's what's missing here. As someone else said, you are, unfortunately, both a little right.

It's particularly bad in places like the US that have car dependent sprawl because

• cities often have had their zoning ordinances weaponized by NIMBYs, and it's probably outright illegal to have a small cafe or shop in your neighborhood, or they're required to have some outrageous parking minimum or something like that.

• driving sucks more than you may be aware of while you're doing it. If you have to get into your car to go to the grocery, you don't want to make five stops at smaller grocers throughout the week; you'd rather just make one big stop at the big box mart and just go tf home. If you want to stop at a cafe, well, just swing through the starbucks drive through so you don't have to be bothered with getting out.

Well, chances are that most of your interactions at chain businesses and stores are anonymous, so you're not meeting other people in your community there, you're not creating any bonds or relationships there, you're doing your business and getting out, which, frankly, is what they want. You're especially not making any friends in the drive thru line. For nearly seventy years now, we've built our cities to be homes to cars, not people, and it's bearing fruit in the form of the loneliness epidemic.

My advice to you would be to go out of your way to find situations where people are getting together for the purpose of being social or having fun. Look for classes put on by your local city parks, go check your local library's bulletin board for events, check social media communities for your nearby city or town for groups that meet regularly. If you're religious, seek out some religious institutions that you find palatable.

I met almost all of my previous girlfriends (including my now wife) either at parties my friends threw, or hobbies I was interested in. I never once went to a club to pick people up or try to meet people intentionally in public. That's always seemed too creepy for me.

Women are just people.

If you learn to talk to men you don't know, you'll learn to talk to women you don't know. It's not inappropriate unless you're trying to get something out of the situation. So don't. Just make some new friends. Of both sexes.

As for when/where, find some hobbies. Go do the hobbies. You'll meet people at the hobbies. Some of those people will be ladies.

that OP actually cares enough about other people to think this over means he's probably more tolerable than most men in my life

when talking to strangers, really good rule to follow is "don't create a situation for somebody who isn't completely free to leave" as in, they can exit the situation or ignore you without any consequences to their job/ night out/ errands/ enjoyment of shared space

most of the rest of the context usually sorts itself out from there, right?

It's a skill you have to learn.

I'm with your parents on this one. It's not hard to talk to someone without harassing them. Obviously you have to be mindful of the context of the situation.

• You're at a party and attempt to strike up a friendly conversation with someone? Totally fine

• You see an attractive stranger walking on the street and you stop them to ask them out? Not ok

Obviously there are loads of gray areas in between, but you can't just start with the premise that talking to a woman is harassment.

I'm like a dozen years older than you, and still have this conversation with my parents about jobs. They want me to cold call people and stalk them and stuff. Really wild stuff.

Your parents are wrong in basically every way. Except, yeah, you should be capable of cold approaching anybody. Not to sexually harass them, but for normal things like, "excuse me have you seen a grey glasses case around here?"

Your parents are not out of touch entirely, as this is a culture thing. Largely a generational one, but still, an existing culture. I personally do not believe it good, but I'm also somewhat like you, except 3,000% queer, poly, and engaged. Sometimes I wish guys would just show up and shoot their shots. Be respectful and accept defeat, but still shoot them. Years ago (when I was about 25), I used to work sort of near a bar and this random dude from a bar somehow made his way to me, working, which was, again, fairly far away by foot. And he REALLY wanted to take me home, putting on all the charm and offers. Which was flattering and all, but I wasn't interested and was forced to steadily increase my level of rejections, plus I was still working. My really cool boss apparently overhead and saw a bit of it, and after the guy finally left (honestly like 30 minutes of him trying), we talked a bit about it and had a good laugh. The guy really just couldn't take a hint. Luckily though, he was a little guy and where I worked was very open and very well lit and so there was no threat.

I think that there's a time and place for everything. That you need to be comfortable in being yourself, and have your own drive and reasons for the things you do. Your parents ARE trying to help you, but often exacerbate their kids by pushing too hard or not putting ANY effort to learn or meet their kids even halfway.

And then you have to take into account that, yeah, people really ARE all different. I know girls who wouldn't want to be cold approached at all, for any reason. I know guys that way, too.

But I also know people that wish they'd be swept off their feet by a price charming or hulk or something. Honestly, I'm kinda that way, but with the duality that as much as I fantasize the forceful, having it be by somebody I don't accept is terrifying and horrifying. And that's not on any one specific thing - people are weird and have all their own unique, weird, internal, intuitive flags and needs. Be it a political alignment, a philosophy, an interest, an appreciation, an open mind, wanderlust, a sexual dynamic, a certain look, a certain feature, a familiarity, an unfamiliarity, for them to be monog or poly, a smell, certain kinds of armpits, tabs vs spaces, etc, whatever.

We are all different, is my point.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. And you, as it seems, are not a seeker type. So, you should focus on what you want in a partner and who you are and want to be. You can listen to your parents a little, but realize that, they, too, besides from being your parents, are just some random ass people with some opinions they've formed by their own unique vision, through their own unique bodies and personalities - what works/worked for them may ONLY work for them, and that's fine. It doesn't make it better or worse than what works for you. I say, try it, at least once, and be prepared to apologize, and then learn from it. You're only young once.

The key is to be respectful.

Also, have you tried... 🫴 femboys? ;)

I think you have a point, but also you've cranked that point to 11. Possibly 12.

Like yes, women can be really infuriated by how often they get hit on. I know the main reason my wife wanted a stereotypical wedding ring with a single diamond was that "it'll keep the flies away"

But also... people interact with you in public. It's like... a property of public spaces. Indeed talking to my wife in a public space is how we met.

The way you make it sound from your description would be that asking some woman directions would be a social fopah. Hell, where does just "having a conversation" land for you then? If you leave without asking for a number, is it different?

There's a difference between idle chit chat and approaching like Johnny Bravo.

Woman here who gets approached from time to time… casual chats are fine and low-key expressing interest is ok. The least stressful approaches I’ve had are when a guy sends his buddy over to expression interest. So you can appease your parents by asking a friend to make the approach on your behalf, maybe.

My husband asked very politely for my number when I was a cashier. He said "Excuse me miss, may I have your number, id love to take you out sometime to get to know you."

Look at it this way, it's the same as approaching someone in public to make a friend. Obviously, that's not inappropriate. It's only inappropriate if you're treating it differently (which you shouldn't be).