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Network guy doesn't work (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

One day I'm introduced to the new Networks guy. He seems.. fine? But I get a vibe from him I can't shake. He's sort of vague and noncommittal about everything. Which I empathise with, its his first day and I get the impression he's a recent graduate. I've been doing this job for decades and I still don't have the confidence to talk in absolutes when there's even a .01% chance of outliers or being caught wrong. Benefit of doubt is given.

It's quickly withdrawn. I was projecting my low self esteem onto him. He like me has a level of confidence mismatched to his abilities, but in the polar opposite to mine. We're all the new kid at some point in our careers, we all start somewhere. I'm more than happy to support him. But it soon becomes clear we don't share the same understanding of what support means.

"Hey, I need your help with something"

Sure what's up?

"A switch needs moving"

...yeah? And how can I help?

"...can you move it?"

..........I can help you move it, sure.

"Oh. Thank you"

So he's never installed rack equipment? Neither had I, until my first time. No worries, I'm still learning stuff all the time.

Grab yourself some ladders and I'll meet you with the toolkit.

"I'm sorry?"

You'll need ladders.

I may have put slight emphasis on "you". After a silent moment of mutual blank stares passes I think he hasn't quite understood what is happening but has chosen to go one step at a time. He goes off for ladders and we meet in the server room. I find the switch and I hand him a screwdriver. He holds this like a curious relic for a moment, and after quiet contemplation his gaze turns back to me.

Two screws on either side, undo those so we can move it please.

"Here and here?"

Yes, just those.

It's only going up a few Us in the rack, we don't even need to unplug anything. He looks to me for next steps. I talk him through the rack mount clip nuts and hold the switch for him while he screws the bolts back in.

"Oh so it's actually very simple!"

Yes, if you need a second pair of hands again next time I'm happy to help. But you got this now yeah?

"Yeah!"

Over the next months I get the odd message asking me to check or patch something. I feed this back to my line management. Job roles are reaffirmed. He is to ask for my support only in times where it is physically not a one person job. I hear much less from him until...

"Can you help me installing this firewall?"

Of course, where?

"Here, just above this router"

...I'm not sure what you need me for. It just rests on top of the existing kit. You don't need a second person for this.

A couple of days go by. Firewall is still sat on a desk. I mind my own business.

"Can you help me with this firewall?"

How so?

"I don't know how to mount it"

Same as last time, four nuts four bolts.

"It isn't that way in the instructions"

Fair enough, it isn't. They have steps to attach a sliding mount and he can't figure it out.

"I can't see how this attaches"

Looks like you have instructions that don't match the parts provided. This is a fixed bracket, not a sliding one.

"How can I install it then?"

Just attach the bracket and ignore the sliders and the runners.

"But that isn't in the instructions?"

I don't have what isn't in the box, dude.

"Then what would I do?"

I'm sure there is documentation on the manufacturers website.

I try my very best to maintain my neutral face long enough for him to click that I'm not offering to research this for him. I am not at all comfortable with this. For a friend or a colleague with a better mutually supportive relationship I would be there for anything he asked. I feel unkind, honestly. But management have made clear to him and to me where our responsibility lies and ends. Plus enabling helplessness is no favour to him as a professional. It's not his lack of experience at fault. It's an attitude that someone else is going to be far less gentle about challenging. We don't have the same line management but his role is above mine, I have no place to say more. All I do is make mention of it and forget about it.

"Can you help me with another job?"

What is it you need from me?

"Can you do xyz for me?"

I'm available to support you to do this yes.

"I'm just not really a hands on guy, can you do this for me?"

This is communicated up several levels of both lines of management. Last I heard it was explained to him in no uncertain terms that his role was not limited to what could be accomplished via SSH from his desk, and if he wanted a career as a network engineer he better step beyond his days in a university classroom network lab and join the world of skills being actually practised.

I still have mixed feelings about letting him learn the hard way. It's not how I would approach someone I was responsible for or senior to. The reality is at this company I would have been told to know my place at the very bottom rung on the ladder and not presume to interfere. I will never, ever take a management role.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Meanwhile I'm so scared of seeming incompetent, I work undocumented hours on the weekend to try and get stuff right on my own.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Never work for free, because that just becomes the expectation.

[-] [email protected] 24 points 3 days ago

Yea, I've had someone like that under me.

Worked for a wireless ISP and it was stipulated several times that climbing on roofs and radio towers was part of the work and because of that everyone has to do a 2 day working at heights safety course.

New guy gets hired and sent to the course, we heard on the second day that the guy won't be passing the course because he refused to do any of the practical assessments.
He shows up on the third day with the boss asking why he failed the course it is required to work and the dude just says he is scared of heights.

Like seriously, the job posing says climbing radio towers and working on roofs and was asked several times in the interview how he handles heights.

Needless to say he didn't come in on the fourth day.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago

Yeah im a tech guy and when I see something like climbing towers I do not apply to those. There has been this thing about people automating their job search and makes me wonder if that is what that guy did.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago

I'm not so old that I'm of the generation that assumed a job was for life. I've never seen any of them as forever jobs. But if I'm doing something full time for what 2-5 years I'm going to take the time to find out what's involved and make a choice if that's what I want to do.

Unless that guy thought the same thing, but, I don't want to climb ladders - THEY better get used to that clicks APPLY

[-] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

Could have been me! First time on a telephone pole I had one arm wrapped around it, shaking like a leaf. My trainer came out after wiring the house, "You're still up there?!"

"Give me a break, I'm afraid of heights!"

"You did know that the job included telephone pole?"

"YES! I'll get over it!"

Never really did, but I did the job that was in front of me anyway.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Kinda similar, insofar as heights and "assumed included with the work involved" was my ill-advised and ofc gung-ho AF summer in college painting houses. (the money was crazy good on paper, fine print was designed to fuck us all)

The crew I was assigned to had a "pro" sprayer guy who was his own favorite character, and mgmt loved to call him their "cowboy".

  • Insane grade below a target section of the yuppie client's architectural oddity? Get the cowboy. He'll rig something up and get'er done.
  • Need a stucco wall coated asap before the sun fully rises and turns it to a tarp of taupe semi-tack that sloughs off in the next rain? Get the cowboy. He's faster than the morning light.
  • Sudden contract add-on that includes targets >40ft and we've only got the one big-ass ladder that barely reaches? Get the cowboy. He'll walk that ladder down the wall himself and spray it solo w/ a team on the ground.
  • Etc. Etc.

Sure, he was an unprofessional on-site, a bonafide team-cohesion liability, and just all-around jackass every single day, but gawdamn that man had no fear whatsoever. Which is how he ended up unconscious in the hospital with multiple fractions, et al, and I got nominated to fill-in. Double the hourly and only ladder work, but I got paid every day as if I'd been working the whole time? Sure, why not?

I lasted less than a week before it dawned on me that he wasn't the first "cowboy" and I wasn't the last. I took my paycheck and walked. I'll take my no-bones-broken record to my grave, thank you. Especially not for some money-grubbin' schemers like mgmt there. 🤌🏼😜

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Hah! I was the cowboy in that I was the one called in to do shit no one else could or would do. Crazy high telephone pole? Call in the guy scared of heights. 16 (really) service calls can't get this guy fixed? Put me in coach. Attic 140F? Yep, shalafi. Space too tiny to fit a full-sized man? Call the spider monkey.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

"No time for love, Docta Jones!"

[-] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago

Some people are curious. Others are not. Some people have hobbies. But I’m a firm believer that those two traits are the reason people say “I’m not handy” and then can’t do something as simple as screwing 8 screws into a captive nut. You have to try. I have no time for these people.

My mood dictates how I help new people, but I try to help them learn it rather than giving the answer, or give the answer in an explanatory way. But the key is that they’re asking for help with a problem, not shirking a task that is too hands-on for them to figure out.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

"I'm not handy" always makes me mad. People call me handy because I do things others hire professionals for. But I'm not handy either. I don't enjoy doing these things, and I don't magically have the knowledge to do it. I look up tutorials or videos of how to do it and get my hands bruised or bloody. You don't need a character trait or label to accomplish these things, you just need to commit and accept that it won't be fun.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago

Agreed. Because of the type of people I normally train and the subject, I start with asking what their experience is. Comfortable with BIOS, networking, drivers? OK cool I'm going to assume then you know enough to follow, don't hesitate to stop me if i mention something or use an acronym you don't understand but let's continue optimistically that you have that knowledge. I think its better for their confidence that I don't explain DHCP unless they ask. It's a form if respect in my view.

The key difference as you mentioned is they sought out my knowledge instead of having it thrust upon them like with this guy. He honestly seemed confused what the relevance was to him, if it was important it would have come up on his course, no? The relevance is to your fucking job my friend.

I wouldn't trade places with him for anything but it amazes me he can walk into his first job with a starting salary I'll never achieve with such contempt for a simple screwdriver.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

One of my only frustrations with my wife is her complete refusal to even try anything she doesn't already know, primarily "man" work.

My kids are much the same, utterly incurious as to how anything works. I followed my mom and dad around and stuck my nose into everything there were doing!

[-] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago

Back when I still worked in IT, I got asked by a new inexperienced support person to come to a different building (complete opposite side of campus) and help him out because he was having trouble repunching a data drop in somebody’s office. The guy was fairly new, and I wanted to procrastinate on the project I had at my desk, so I didn’t mind going to help him out.

I hop in the golf cart, drive several minutes, park, walk to the office where he was, and ask him to step aside so I can demonstrate while he watches. The data drop had a big desk in front of it that couldn’t be easily moved.

By the time I get into position to demonstrate, I look up and see he’s nowhere in sight. I go looking around, and he’s in an office a few doors down engaged in a bullshitting session with another employee.

I tell myself “fuck this i’m not his lackey” grab my stuff and leave without saying anything

[-] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago

I had a job where the culture was all you know and all you do is what you're told, and fuck you for asking. I have bitter memories of being scolded for not knowing something I'd never been asked to work on before and wasn't even aware of it's existence. It's so painful to read your story of taking the time to provide training and it being not just unappreciated but disrespected.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago

Being able to just fuck off and go work on something else for a couple hours is seriously underrated. I haven't worked on a campus per se but sounds similar to military base work (if a bit smaller in scale)

[-] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago

"It isn't that way in the instructions"

As I and another commenter were saying, this is what modern education did to GenZ and most of the Millennials. They were taught conformity, blind rule following, no creativity, no independence and fear of failure. I can totally understand this guy's reluctance!

We Xers utterly failed these kids. We had it pretty good as youth, and that's not rose colored glasses, some shit was utterly unacceptable. When it came our turn to parent we twisted the authoritarian screws.

Wonder what they think of 80s movies where the hero breaks rules. Hawkeye Pierce must be seen as a monster now days. :)

[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I'm a 'Xer'. When my daughter went to college and became a RA she taught her peers how to change a tire on a car, How to check fluid levels and how to take their car to a parts store to get a engine light checked. I thought that was crazy at the time that these kids didn't know how to do that but I've learned that a lot of parents never bothered to explain anything at all to them.

Then I found out about the betting pools on which freshman would set off the fire system first. Some of these kids didn't know how to cook ramen noodles. Some of them were completely without basic skills.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

So many posts on reddit, "How do I do $thing that every competent adult should already know?" Freaked me out. My GenA kids are completely uninterested in learning how anything works. Weird.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago

I still don't have the confidence to talk in absolutes

Speaking as a 30-year IT veteran, never talk in absolutes.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago

Yep.

"How sure are you about this?

Ooooh.. 99%?

"So you're pretty confident"

What? No I couldn't have less faith in this unless I saw it fail with my own two eyes.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago

Had a great IT job where the boss would always ask, "Are you sure?" Well, uh, not exactly. I learned to never again talk like that.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Shit, i was thrilled to get away from my desk now and again when i was working support

[-] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago

Same. I've more than done my time on hardware but the occasional nostalgic thrill of getting hands on is still a delight.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Its very satisfying to drop a decommissioned industrial label printer (and the esoteric custom networking device that allowed it to even receive print jobs over a modern network) onto a concrete floor after getting its replacement(s) working 😁

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

I will not deny you your joy and I understand that feeling of exorcism. But when its someone else's exorcism do you ever feel that primal impulse to intervene and not destroy that device, until you too have also tried and failed to restore it? And even if you did, to what end? It's useless. You could save it. And no one will thank you. That ancient barcode scanner. The thermal receipt printer. Once it was the most sought after tool in your office. Now it is worth less than the fourth cheapest mobile phone you keep to occupy your infant and his curious exploratory teeth.

One day we will all hear that piezo bios speaker cry out, LOOK TO THE RAM, THE RAM!! for the final time. And we will not recognise its passing. Like that day you pressed that AT power button and knew silence. And that day you hit that ATX button assured of imminent quiet.

Now you dig and scrape and claw your fingernail over a miniscule bar shaped button and press your ear, hoping to catch a whirr delayed or a belated faint screen glow or a deferred squeak.

I loved you, BIOS

With a tearful shuddering whimper I surrender. It's UEFI now. Please. Maybe this time. If I wish hard enough, and BELIEVE. Maybe this time it will turn on. Am I not sufficiently penitent, UEFI? Grant me a sign. A dim LED, a blank yet powered backlit screen. A whisper of life. Please, turn on. Please turn on and heed my F12. Please. Please fucking bastard PXE boot. Please.

Oh you fucking cunt. I hate that spinning white circle. Shift+F10 and shutdown -s -t 0. Fuck me please, don't ever boot to OOBE again. Please don't make me wait or wonder. JUST BRING ME THE RAT IN THE CAGE

"......

I love big brother"

[-] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago

Sounds like you did everything you could given the situation. Unfortunately, it's not that hard to make it through college (at least it wasn't in the program I did). I've seen plenty of new hires with this attitude. Though I prefer it to the combative ones (sure, you're a fresh grad and I've been programming in C for 15 years, but go ahead and explain how my understanding of pointers is wrong).

[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

I've seen in some people, to a degree I'm guilty of this too, that "professional self preservation" is something only experience can teach.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

I work with a lot of college students. One of the most important things I try to convey is what I call "appropriate corporate apathy." That is, doing your best while setting appropriate boundaries.

The idiom I repeat often is, "the prize for winning the pie-eating contest is more pie."

[-] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

I don't get that as there is entirely to much desk work (well when I was working) in general and getting the chance to move equipment and cables to me is a treat.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I have a jr tech that I have volunteered to mentor at my job, they have a hard time being independent, learning on their own, and being self-motivated.

This is the result of our education system. And wealth inequality.

School doesn't prioritize learning skills or being self-sufficient. It rewards following instructions and regurgitating material. So people aren't actually taught to take any initiative whatsoever.

Also, you should remember there is a chronic sense of helplessness ingrained into pretty much everyone younger than 30. Besides there being no economic or social prospects in this life due to wealth inequality, but the world we live in is dying in a mass extinction event that most people don't even aknowledge. So the reward for a lifetime of wage slavery is a dead world to die in...

Makes it hard to give a shit about keeping the wheel spinning.

This is an issue I see with MOST genz employees, all we can do is be supportive and try to foster a sense of autonomy in younger generations who have no resources with which to be autonomous in their own lives.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

I can rant for some time about our school systems. They've trained kids to be goose-stepping automatons. I think that's why I can't relate to some younger folks attitudes. Totally lawful good little paladins!

When my stepson was in elementary 15-years back, I was appalled and angry at what they put kids through. They couldn't walk, bike, or skate to school, busses and parents only. Every day the teacher had to come to my rolled down car window, put her hand on the roof and look me in the eye. Fuck me. When I was a kid the teacher didn't even get up from their desk. When the bell rung we were free to do whatever the hell we wanted.

From kindergarten on we had our own locker and we were responsible for bringing our books and materials to class. At 5yo you damned well better know your combination and have your shit together! Hell no, not now. I saw tiny kids hunched over double with giant backpacks. Asked my son why they didn't just put their books in their locker. "We're not allowed to have lockers." Because drugs. Now cops come to schools and arrest little kids. We didn't need cops, we were too scared of the principal beating us. And I'd take a paddling over arrest any day, even today!

Look right here on lemmy when anyone states they broke some innocuous little rule or law. Maybe they took a calculated risk. Or maybe they have a harmless opinion that goes against the zeitgeist. People shit kittens! Found that back on reddit as well, took me a long time to understand it.

Sitting around drinking with some GenZ friends and suggested we do a thing, I forget but it was zero risk. "But isn't that against the law?" "Well yeah, but how the hell would anyone even know?"

My first year of college saw my roommate and I break a law every single day, be it federal, state, city or university. Never got caught and made the highest grades on the floor. Meh. Maybe we Xers were morally bankrupt, but we had more freedom and fun.

I'd add that social media sets expectations for everyone to appear and act the same. Fear of humiliation may be our strongest emotion and social media forces kids to conform and not stick their neck out. I was bullied enough, as in literal ass beatings, but I can't imagine being young and having to fit in that environment. Probably would have either conformed or suicided.

Anyway, I can rant all day, but every word you said is true to my experiences, could have written that myself. We should be friends.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Sounds like Gabe from Silicon Valley.

this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2025
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