this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
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[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Image Transcription: Meme


STOP USING CSS

* HTML WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GIVEN CLASSES
* YEARS OF MARKUP yet NO REAL-WORLD USE FOUND for styling beyond <TABLE>
* Wanted to center content for a laugh? We had a tool for that: It was called "<CENTER>"
* "Yes please align that content exactly 32.89% left. Please align 59.0px down"
    - Statements dreams up by the utterly deranged

LOOK at what FRONT-END Devs  have been demanding your Respect for all this time.
(This is REAL CSS. done by REAL Devs)

[Three screenshots of CSS code, each one marked with a number of red question marks. The first screenshot has five question marks and reads as follows:]

h1 {
        font-size: .75em;
        position: absolute;
        bottom: 20px;
        width: 94%;
        left: 2%;
}

[The second screenshot has eight question marks and reads as follows:]

*{
    font-size: 30px;

}
    q::before {
  content: "«";
  color: blue;
]

q::after {
  content: "»";
  color: red;
}

[The third screenshot has sixteen question marks and reads as follows:]

#header ul a:focus, #header ul a:active,
#header ul a:hover {
    background-color: #5A5A5A;
    outline-color: -moz-use-text-color:
    outline-style: none;
    outline-width: medium;
}

[The screenshots end.]

"Hello center that div please"

They have played us for absolute fools


I am a human who transcribes posts to improve accessibility on Lemmy. Transcriptions help people who use screen readers or other assistive technology to use the site. For more information, see here.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago (1 children)

This comment was formatted better than the image.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

And not by a small margin.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 years ago
[–] [email protected] 25 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The web is beyond bloated.

The heavy reliance on JavaScript has suck the joy out of browsing the web for me

[–] [email protected] 33 points 2 years ago (1 children)

May I introduce you to the Gemini project?

It's a new(ish) protocol for sharing interlinked text documents. It's intended to sit between Gopher and HTML in terms of complexity and is deliberately, aggressively simple (some might even say crippled) with the intention that it will be nearly impossible to extend the protocol for surveillance capitalism. It's not trying to replace ye olde WWW, but to provide a human-focused place for text-first, 90's-style sites to live. ...just without the blink tags.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

…just without the blink tags.

NOOO! IT IS BROKEN!

How am I build my cool website without a blinking "Thank You For Reading!"???

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I'd say the over exploitation of JavaScript to leverage tracking, interaction and marketing has helped create the poor experiences we now have on web. The underlying technology when used for creating interactive and helpful UIs is very beneficial

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 years ago

Oh, got that layout looking all nice and modern?

Be a shame if somebody... tried to email it!

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The future of HTML is classless, stateless and moneyless! 🏴

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

HTMLs of the world, unite!

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 years ago

you mock but as soon as these rounded corners are gone everything becomes so .... pointy.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago (23 children)

As an amateur web designer in the 90s and early 2000s, this speaks to me. I stopped web development when CSS became popular and I couldn’t wrap my head around it.

Is there a petition I can sign to scrap all this nonsense modern web progress and go back to that beautiful, dial-up friendly HTML?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I stopped doing frontend work when responsive design became important. Super unpleasant work. Now I'm happier at the backend where I don't have to worry about how my shit looks on the 7 million possible screen sizes people are likely to use. Life is more peaceful here.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Alright hang on now - responsive design is about not excluding people based on the device they're using. Many people do everything in their lives from a low end cell phone and cutting them out is a shit thing to do. Responsive design and progressive enhancement are objectively good things.

The tools have gotten better over the past several years, it's not as hard as it used to be.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 years ago

? Who said anything about excluding anything or anyone? I'm just saying I don't like the work that has to go into making sure nobody's excluded. In a way, I'm not excluding anyone by excluding everyone now. I quit frontend altogether, left other people to deal with it. At the backend I don't have to worry about what kind of screen the other end might be using to view the JSON string I sent them. You don't get "I just looked at your response headers on my 32:9 monitor that I divided into 9 randomly sized tiles and it looks like shit, please fix" calls when you work backend.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Frontend developer here, please save me from my torment, thanks

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (9 children)

Have you considered just forcing everyone to access your sites via Internet Explorer 5.5?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Wanna play a modern front-end dev simulator? Check this https://artpolikarpov.github.io/garmoshka/

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Modern frameworks make responsive design easier but yes it is still a lot to wrap your head around. I remember building my hs robotics team website in high school right as responsive design was becoming a thing. "WHAT DO YOU MEAN I HAVE TO NEST A CONTAINER IN A CONTAINER I ALREADY HAVE ONE!!!"

Bless those who came up with flexbox

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

I love to see the occasional flexbox appreciation, since at least for me (someone just getting into Design/Web dev) flexbox changed responsive design from being a totally unfeasible project to being genuinely fun to work on, and sometimes the most exciting part!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago

Check out Gemini!

It's an alternative protocol to HTTP with a focus on simplicity and being much harder to abuse for user tracking.

It's still a small community, but growing.

If you miss the internet of the nineties, there's some echoes of it here.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Really though it's a shame that so many devs still try to treat the web like print where they have full control over the layout at any given time. Even after the death of Flash and the introduction of smartphones and their need for fluid layouts. Meanwhile concepts like progressive enhancement got left behind.

At least we've got flexbox and grid now.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)

My main issue isn't even that CSS exists, or its current functionalities. It's the expectation that, if you're creating a web page, you must use CSS extensively, and ditch every single "pure" HTML feature that might solve your problem.

On a practical level, what's intrinsically wrong with the center tag? Or tables for alignment? Those might be bad in some situations, but they're rather succinct and simple ways to get what you want.

"But what if in the future..." - address future problems in the future. As soon as they appear - not before or after that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Have you even made a production grade front end project?

You can't use "pure" HTML solutions because every browser can display these differently. You have to use CSS to make a website look and behave modern. "Pure" center tag is clunky and doesn't work everywhere and that's "by design" (That behavior is defined in specification, and we can't change specification to meet today's standards because that would make it non backwards compatible). Additionaly you need to make your website scale to wide range of devices. And sometimes you need to even add JS to fix some of the issues if you don't want the developer to implement a non-maintainable solution taking him 5 hours, if he could do that in JS in 5 minutes.

Look CSS is not perfect. It's hacky solution to a problem, but news flash: most software engineering is. And it's proved to be working.

"But what if in the future..." - address future problems in the future. As soon as they appear - not before or after that.

That's the stupidest thing I've read today. I hope you're not any kind of engineer. There are some situations where it might not be worth it to future-proof something, but if you apply that to everything you end up needing a full rewrite instead of just adding a feature.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Or tables for alignment?

Tables are for displaying data, not styling. They worked in the past because there was no alternative but they are the wrong tool for the job; like cutting a board with a hammer.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

The problem is that HTML was not designed to be a layout description. Your browser was to decide.

So, to force HTML to be a layout description rather than simple markup, we have this mess.

HTML != TeX

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

As a frontend dev I hate frontend. CSS is not even the main issue.

Fuck Jest and having to mock libraries. I'm gonna go backend in Go or something like that ASAP.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

You will still need to mock things for tests in Go

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yeah but the tool chain isn't a poorly constructed house of toothpicks

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

i might have some bad news for you

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I too look forward to all of our websites looking like they're from the 90s upon the abolition of CSS.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago (2 children)

I just use Bootstrap and don't worry about learning CSS. Probably because I suck as CSS.

But if I can use a few Bootstrap classes to make my app 'presentable' and 'professional-looking' and spend my time on what's important...functionality and security...then I'm happy to.

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