Hitting US bases should come with significant risks
this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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Yeah I’m generally anti us military action and I don’t want this to turn into a war again, but this really does feel like a fuck around and find out situation. US troops have been killed and strikes have continued against our ships.
And not just our ships, but global trade ships. A blatant attempt to disrupt the global economy, which much of the world relies on the world's largest navy to protect.
But the US should be allowed to put bases wherever it wants?
Yeah when we ask the government of that place, and they say yes, we should then feel free to do that.
The US "asks"
Look at the ruins left all over that region to see what happens to countries that don't cooperate.
They get overrun by the local threats the USA may have been able to help with? I mean, there's obviously nuance here, but you aren't using it either so
Don't waste your time. This user has gems like:
Liberals in America are just right wing anti-communists, they’re not leftists at all. As for Bernie, social-democracy is the moderate wing of fascism and that’s why he supports Biden’s genocide.
Both parties are evil because this is an evil country that must be stopped.
But I’m quite serious about hating America. No one should be president and we should do everything possible to make that a reality.
And told me that Russia is less corrupt and authoritarian than the USA. They ran away from that conversation once facts were laid out.
Liberals in America are just right wing anti-communists, they're not leftists at all.
This is factually true
The Democratic Party covers a range from supporters of European-style Social Democracy (Sanders, Cortez, etc.) to the moderate center-right. The former is definitely part of the leftist spectrum. They would be at least slightly left of the center in Europe and most definitely are by American standards.
The fact that there aren't any noteworthy Communist politicians in the US isn't all that surprising given that America wasn't exactly receptive to this ideology for most of its history and that the the whole Marxist Leninist world revolution ended up being a rather embarrassing failure. Arbitrarily claiming that anyone who is anti-communist, which is hardly an unreasonable position, can't be leftist is just absurd.
You have just explained Chomsky's limits on the spectrum of acceptable opinion. Most of these Democrats are fiscally moderate at best and foreign policy aligns quite closely with US interests. Every single one is McCarthy levels of fervently anti-communist.
When every single senator and Congress member vote to agree on the defense budget, I can't take you seriously when you speak about the 'diversity' of Democrats.
Ah, a tankie... has someone let in the hexbears again?
Actually I went to work and your post required too much to respond during a bathroom break.
I'll get to you this afternoon!
Looking forward to it. Especially where you'll come up with 6 million deficit in domestic murders akin to the Stalin Regime.
Or what compares to being imprisoned for 15 years for a blank protest sign or publicly opposing the war in Ukraine.
The USSR doesn't exist anymore
You brought up Stalin yourself in the conversation. Why suddenly cherry-pick date ranges now? Besides, Putin openly wrote in an essay how he wanted to go back to those good old days. With Rasputin-like friends like Dugin, no need to go back to the USSR to see that the Russian Federation yearns to go right back to that.
Yep, that sucks.
Russia is still worse.
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Drug laws aren't too kind in Russia, either. Just see what happened to Brittney Griner or Marc Fogel.
Local threats the US created 🙄
Honestly tho. ISIS was born in Abu Graib, a US run prison. The Taliban was a reaction to the warlords the US funded in the war against the USSR. Hamas has been funded by Israel, a US supported ally, for years. All the alternatives to Hamas in Gaza were suppressed. And this is just the middle east. The same pattern is repeated in South America and East Asia.
Do they put them wherever they want, or in coordination with the local sovereign governments?
You can look at what happens to countries that don't "coordinate"
They often crumble from internal sectarian violence. Or get overrun by Russian sock-puppets barrel-bombing and using chemical weapons against their own people. But ah, yes, while I opposed the Iraq invasion, Saddam was clearly a great guy and Iraq was thriving, right? Or how about Iran? No bases there! I'm sure the women just love their bastion of freedom from their US overlords, lol.
Iraq was better off before the invasion. Fact.
Also, do you think women get freedom when the US installs bases?
20 years more of Saddam rule? As much as the pretense for going into Iraq was bogus, the oppressed Shia population would beg to differ.
You're the one who told me to look at countries that don't coordinate with the US. I did. I'm not impressed. I look at countries like Germany today and by contrast, I am impressed. So are you impressed by Iran, Russia, North Korea? Or do you disagree with the likes of Jordan openly cooperating with the US to contain ISIS?
Iraq was better off before the invasion. Fact.
I don't think this is a fact. Let's look at a few metrics, starting with HDI:
https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/Iraq/human_development/
Infant mortality rate:
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRQ/iraq/infant-mortality-rate
GDP per capita (ignore the silly outlier):
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRQ/iraq/gdp-per-capita
These basic figures suggest that a number of key aspects of life are indeed better than they were during the dictatorship.
The homicide rate is higher now:
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IRQ/iraq/murder-homicide-rate
Keep in mind though that there is no way of knowing how accurate official figures from the past were (this also goes for the numbers on human and economic development, of course). Also worth noting that the government itself could kill and maim with impunity back then:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde14/003/1996/en/
Freedom of the press is still pretty abysmal these days (and the page also touches on what you were likely mentioning the instability):
https://rsf.org/en/country/iraq
A report from 2002 on the state of affairs under Saddam's rule:
https://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/iraq/press.html
I would admit that life in Iraq could be safer under Saddam Hussein compared to today, given that he kept a lid on especially religious conflicts, but this came with a big asterisk: Provided you didn't run afoul of the regime or provided the regime didn't think you did (no court of appeal, no independent judiciary, torture and murder are common - you can be the most loyal Baathist and still just be unlucky), provided you didn't have a pretty daughter (or were one) in a place where Saddam's son were looking for girls to rape, torture and murder, provided you weren't a member of a persecuted ethnic group, provided you didn't own something Saddam or his sons wanted from you, etc. The usual caveats of living under autocratic rule, with the added "insane son of dictator" factor (see also: what Kim Jong Il was up to in his younger days).
Up to one million people are dead because of the War on Iraq. You spit on their graves when you say life is better.
The upper estimates for the number of people killed under Saddam Hussein are about one million as well. Now what?
So America is about as bad as Saddam Hussein?
Then what was the fucking point? What did we do any of that for? Do you expect them to thank us?
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One of the dumbest fucking comments I've ever read on this platform..
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Well, they are still illegally occupying a third of Syria. https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2023/04/29/us-in-syria-the-forgotten-illegal-occupation
And ofcourse, this gem... https://youtu.be/U10p3Tn9V5Y?t=19
If I'm honest that's one occupation I'm fine with remaining illegal. Fuck the Assad regime, and fuck Russia.
Just so you know, that article you provided is made literally by the Kremlin state media, who just so happen to have bombed Syrian civilians relentlessly for years and have propped up the brutal dictator Assad for years.
Also considering how much Trump cozies up to Putin, I also don't give a damn what Donnie says.
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putting military bases outsude your borders all over the planet should come with significant risks
Like dont kid yourselves ppl, America is a Machiavellian malignant military monolith, how did you think it was going to respond?
Oh wait, they were supposed to cry "don't bomb my bases waah!" and do nothing right? Like they did from 1946 to today?
Or maybe "Oops, I see that groups i classified as terrorist organizations and enemies don't like my decisions, now that my forces were attacked, I see they meant it!!! Let me just retreat & quickly drop all of my country's positions they don't like!!!"
Quit deluding yourselves. It's getting old.
Machiavellian malignant military monoloth
Really fuckin alliterative way to say "terrorists" lol
Much harder to complain though when it's "terrorist bombs other terrorists after being bombed" right? Lol
Meanwhile, in the Middle East
"Hey, did you hear America blew up some of our people and stuff?"
"What else is new? Whatever, let's go try to hijack another cargo ship."
Anything he does (or doesn't do) related to that entire part of the planet will carry a lot of political risk.
"Biden takes a dump, hurts his re-election chances"
When America assassinates Iranian generals or just uses drone strikes it's fine. But if three Americans are killed this is somehow an escalation? And the proportional response is 85!! bombings?
Fuck the Mid East let it burn.
We don’t need their oil anymore. Pull our troops out of Iraq, let them deal with whatever fucked up form of extremism pops up. Israel can defend itself just sell them the weapons to do so. Iran and Saudi can go at it, we can just sell more weapons.
Trade in the Red Sea is more important to China and Europe let them deal with securing their own trade routes.
You are very naive to assume that 1) this chaos would remain contained in the Middle East 2) that America could decouple itself from the Middle East even as oil runs out (which isn't happening just yet) and 3) that nobody else would move into the power vacuum. We have seen the chaos that comes when there is nobody at the helm in America (during the Trump presidency), including in the Middle East. Isolationism doesn't work and the sole remaining superpower can not afford to be this foolish.
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Pretty grotesque thought. Let the region fall into chaos and profit from it with weapons sales. Maybe they shouod try that where you live first.
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I hate when the political risk of my retaliatory strikes is Experts. It literally ruins my day. I hate Experts. Who let them know stuff??
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