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Biden decided it was more important to send billions in weapons to israel as they committed genocide than to listen to protestors, so much so that he thought it was worth losing their votes over it. Harris continued with the same rhetoric. You're ignoring over a year of things getting worse and worse in Palestine while insisting that somehow the democrats ignoring voters during an election when they need the votes are somehow going to make things better when they don't need the votes. You're admonishing people protesting against genocide in order to defend a party that has authorized billions in weapons to israel as they're committing genocide, with Biden even bypassing congress to do so. Think about it.
It's nice to see centrists finally object to the genocide they cheered for a solid year under Bidenyahu.
Biden wasn't able to hold back the tide ethnic cleansing and war crimes the IDF has inflicted on the Palestinians. It is very unlikely that a Harris win would have reigned in the killings, bombings, and all that have taken place since the election.
If you can't understand why people would abstain from supporting one of two genocide supporting candidates who had shown no interest in making things better, you're just as much to blame for the current US admin as those who did not vote.
Wasn't able? He sent weapons, money and everything Netanyahu needed. Had he stopped sending money and weapons and the genocide would have stopped that very moment.
Exactly. And he didn't. For whatever reasons he wasn't able to do anything but allow, if not actively encourage, the actions of Netanyahu and the IDF that led to the deaths of dozens to hundreds of Israelis, and tens of thousands of Palestinians.
And you're too high on American exceptionalism to realise that the words coming out of the White House have zero impact on the experience of Palestians.
The war crimes, ethnic cleansing, and indeed genocide would be happening the same. The only difference is you need to make up for thinking it would be less horrific if you had a leader who'd wasn't so mask off about it.
Okay then stfu about Trump since you think he and Biden are equivalent.
You seem to have mistaken not materially different to Palestinians as equal to equivalent.
And that I didn't talk about the bad stuff done by Biden and Obama, and the Bushes, and (the) Clinton(s).
Maybe if the Democratic party was more willing to make more materialistic changes we wouldn't've had first Trump, let alone Trump 2. It is naive to hope that, and things for American sexual and ethnic minorities would be, generally, better under democrats. But they're a holding pattern until the Republicans get in, and Dems don't have people's backs.
But my original point was that if you're so blinkered to not even be able to understand why progressives and anti-imperialist would sit out of the 2024 election, you're not going to be able to talk them round to vote for Your Guy™ if there is an election again in the future.
Rather than understand a dissenting point of view, you dismiss and villify people you should be trying to work with and understand.
Get friendly with Black Bloc and maybe we can all make things better for everyone at home and in the Middle East.
STOP FUXKING PATTING YOURSELF ON THE BACK FOR FUCKS SAKE. All you’re doing is driving a wedge between people who oppose the genocide. Do you support the genocide? Because shit like this makes it seem like you love it because you get to say “pfft. Well this is on those people over there and I was sooo right.”
Why is this so fucking important to you? Shut the fuck up with this. Every single time there is horrifying news about Gaza. You pull out the blaming stick to say “this is the fault of thise people who didn’t like the genocide!” Shut the fuck up this isnt about you and how fuxking right your vote was.
Do something better. If you actually give a shit. Because it’s very possible you don’t and are more concerned with labeling yourself as having been right and washing your hands of the situation
For fucks sake
Stop driving a wedge into people who drove a wedge.
Quit calling out the bullshit that led us here.
If you can’t stop aiding genocide when you have the legal authority to do so, you probably won’t do anything for democracy.
…and here we are
We spent over a year using every means of pressure we had to bend the party and all we had to show for it was more billions for Israel. Nothing would have changed if we voted for the party that spent the last year ignoring our demands.
Instead, you got the party that sent 2000 lbs bombs and wants to eradicate the people of Gaza so he can build some casinos.
If you bomb a refugee camp with one 2000lbs bomb or two 1000lbs bombs, will it make any practical difference for the women and children who have their bodies blown apart or burn to death?
You're arguing against a straw man. They've been using 2000lb bombs the whole time anyway.
Biden floated a plan to displace all the Palestinians in Gaza too, but he was unable to get any Arab country to go along with it.
Trump will face the same obstacles.
Biden was already sending loads and loads of bombs for over a year
Nothing would have changed? Hahahahaha. Well you got your change. Congrats on creating even more dead Palestinian children. You seem weirdly proud of having their blood on your hands.
So almost until Biden left office, Israel was killing an average of 100 to 300 Palestinians a day. What do you think would have magically changed, if Biden had continued into a second term, or Harris had taken over who had vowed to continue Bidens policies?
You claim the Democrats would have suddenly ended their policies of over one year of genocide, despite stating the opposite. Can you please point me to the evidence that this would have happened?
As @[email protected] pointes out, Biden tried to fo for ethnic cleansing in 2023. When that met the resistance of the surrounding countries, he decided to escalate to murdering as many Palestinians he could get away with without sparking a revolt in the US.
The only difference in policy is that Trump is speaking the quiet part out loud.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/2/biden-under-pressure-to-act-amid-new-fears-of-ethnic-cleansing-in-gaza
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/01/08/biden-gaza-restrain-israel-hamas-ethnic-cleansing/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/1/bidens-israel-funding-request-gets-scrutiny-hits-early-hurdle
https://truthout.org/articles/rights-groups-say-bidens-israel-funding-request-would-finance-ethnic-cleansing/
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/10/14/can-egypt-be-persuaded-to-accept-gazan-refugees
The ceasefire is still ongoing, despite Israel's provocations. I know you're horny for more genocide so you can feel good about being "right" about the lesser evil, but so far the number of dead children has dramatically decreased since Biden was in office.
Tell me what Biden or Kamala would have done different? Remember all the red lines that functionally did nothing to US policy?
It was under biden that, we estimate because we can't know, that ~500,000 gazans died. It was under biden that we continued to send bombs to israel even as Israel pushed the entire population into a concentration camp next to egypt.
Gaza was already under a dictator. Way to go Biden and Kamala, instead of giving a single fuck about your electorate loudly told you, you sucked the teet of pro-israel donors and it lost the election.
You fucks keep spouting this drivel but are weirdly quiet about what's happening currently. Sure, many more Palestinian children are going to die because of your tantrum but if you just keep throwing the tantrum maybe you won't have to look at the blood on your hands.
This question was not answered.
For starters you can see what Trump claims to be doing different from what was being done:
Continuing weapons shipments haulted by Biden
Putting an actual literal unapologetic genocide advocate in charge
I do indeed miss the days when headlines talked about the POTUS cussing out Netanyahu, which actually happened at several different events. It's no secret that Netanyahu showed favoritism to Trump, and it doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to know why.
You believe what trump claims? Is it because he also supports genocide? And why do pro-genocide centrists always think that "Oh, You think trump is better?! HUH?!" is some sort of a fucking gotcha? We warned you that if you didn't abandon the genocide that is the only thing any centrist has ever been capable of truly loving, YOU WOULD LOSE. You did, and you're blaming everyone to your left for being able to read the writing on the wall.
Conveniently behind closed doors where it doesn't matter. If we had "behind the scenes" biden instead of the biden that actually exists, we might not have trump again.
It won't be, because libs don't have an answer for this, they just want a more polite genocider in office
You are literally saying "you're being quiet while throwing a tantrum". Which is it, am I being quiet or noisy? Or is this some sort of weird quiet tantrum?
Yeah, look at how effective your strategy of running from responsibility has been. You and the DNC's policy of blaming progressive voices IS what lost them this election. How about you keep doing that louder. Maybe you can go strike a deal with the Republicans to level just half of Gaza. Because that's what Democrats in Congress are currently talking about. They are pissed, not because they lost, but because their constituents are calling them demanding they do more.
And they apparently think Ukrainian children are worthless.
Where are you getting this? You're the only one mentioning Ukraine.
Because what's currently happening is ONLY possible because of that Biden and Harris did. It's liberals that were quiet about genocide occurring because their preferred flavor of fascism was doing it, and you want to talk about blood on your hands?
Trump is talking about seizing Gaza and make it into resorts and we still get “JORR BIDEN”.
Stop apologising for genocide.
Centrists have no other policy. They can't.
It's neat watching centrists get mad that trump is implementing their only policy.
You sure rattled the monkey cage with this one
Are you interested in others being able to participate in democracy or are you only interested in commanding others to vote for your preferences?
Think only having these two unreasonable options to choose from is unfair and not a real choice? Me too, thanks.
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That's funny, everyone, everyone know they don't give a fuck what we have to say. They were willing to lose an election before listening to what we had to say. It was able time people held them accountable for refusing to represent our demands. Liberals refusing to listen gave us another round of Trump
Idk who would call you a Tankie for saying Biden is better, the Tankies support Trump.
I wonder why we don’t hear “genocide don”? People wouldn’t shut the fuck up for like a year with the “genocide Joe” shit.
I tried explaining what you’re saying to those people dozens of times - Trump would be same or worse in Gaza, this is not the election to “teach the dems a lesson” with, and Trump will be far worse on a dozen other very important issues. Barely got one reasonable response, usually just “so you love gennercide!!” Either shills for Trump or very stupid.