this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
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Lets be honest with ourselves, half of the left is in support of the genocide happening is gaza. have seen this in both US left. and just as much in German, UK, Dutch left parties. only the French left has somewhat of a push back against that, France seems to be the only western country to still have genuine left factions among its left parties.
Liberals aren't leftists, Clyde. They are literally the centrists (ie, confused right-wingers) the meme is referring to.
No true Scotsman fallacy.
Fallacy Fallacy. Simply naming a fallacy doesn't mean the argument is wrong. Recognizing fallacies help you know where to attack an invalid argument, they don't attack it for you.
If someone said I wasn't a true Scotsman simply because I have no Scottish heritage and have never been to Scotland they would be correct. It's not a fallacy when the person in question doesn't meet the definition of the group. The definition of Leftist is not "to the left of someone else in the room, even if if that person is a full Authoritarian."
I DECLARE LEMMY FALLACY!
You said something on lemmy and I think it's wrong so lemmy fallacy! You're wrong! :P
Hey, I just wanted you to know that you can't just say "fallacy" and expect it to mean something.
🙏
That doesn't apply here, liberals fundamentally aren't leftists. Liberals are centrists.
While I totally agree that liberals are not leftists. Liberals in the US are on the left.
I don't really expect you to learn this, as a self-identifying leftist, because your priors are everything to you, but it is true.
Being left of the far-right does not make one a leftist. Words have meanings.
I would never claim liberals are leftists. Leftists are liberals who failed math
Curious how you came to that conclusion. When I was in the math department in college, most of the smartest students were full-blown communists. Though I'm not sure how you think math factors into it in the first place
Lots of undergrads believe lots of silly shit. My buddy was a conservative til he got his masters in Econ. People grow.
You're the one who implied leftism conflicts with mathematical understanding, which you still haven't justified with any actual reasoning.
Yep! Always makes me laugh.
I guess whatever you are is what happens when you fail basic logic.
Nope
Incompetent in logic and rhetoric both, truly impossible to underestimate.
You can lead a troglodyte to knowledge but you can't make them think.
At some point, the goal stops being trying to reach them, and becomes trying to reach lurkers who might agree with them.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vjOrOMVFCbs
So the original post was talking world wide. Limiting the scope to a very right wing portion of the world doesn't magically change who's on the Left.
If you have a room full of people saying "Let's form a dictatorship and conquer the world!" and 1 person says "I don't think that's a good idea", that person is not automatically "on the left" just because they are to the left of extremist right wing views.
No they are absolutely not.
It's cute when you guys do Bernie Math to try to make yourselves seem correct.
Condescension: how centrists concede an argument.
So, only /some/ genocide?
Liberalism is the ideology of capitalism.
Leftist politics reject capitalism.
Liberalism is only left compared to conservatism, but both are on the right wing.
It doesn't get any simpler than this, Clyde - liberals aren’t leftists.
Never has been. Never will be.
A quick Google search failed to inform me what a "clyde-liberal" is. Would you please explain?
"Clyde" is you - "liberal" is also you.
Do the math.
Lmao what? Liberals vote in favor of right wing economic policies. Scotsman fallacy doesn't even apply here
I once asked the hexbear community why they are pro-genocide against their "opponents" and got called Hitler when I didn't think it was reasonable to commit genocide at all.
From my point of view it's the extremists on both left and right that is the biggest problem.
The leftists looks at right extremists and think to themselves that the entire right-wing is like that. Same goes for people on the right. They look at what the leftist extremists do and then argue that it's how people on the left think and act.
But just like all of life, politics is not black and white. Just because I agree with the left more than the right that does not mean I agree with the entire leftist politics.
The Spanish center-left is re-positioning itself denouncing Israel's actions after years of ambivalence, and the Spanish left is calling for sanctions.
How terrible for Spain.
There's no Left in the US. The "Left" is more of a Center Right
Jesus Christ this has been disproven so many times. No just because the people that push politics that are often to the left of most European democracy's main left leaning party are old white farts too does not mean that they're a secret center right pretending to call themselves a left leaning party.
Centrist Democrats have found their equivalent version of Bush Jr's "terrorist sympathizer" accusation, and they're going to use it as a cudgel against the left until it stops working.
They do not care that the claim is ridiculous.
But they considers themselves leftists, and their voters see them that way as well.
ALL the left parties in the back a ceasefire and The Green Party calls for an end to the occupation. Labour are more right wing than the Conservatives when David Cameron was elected. There are left MPs still in the Labour, many have been fired or have quit.
I can't call Labour a left party in all good faith. it has been taken over by the blairites. Corbyn brought hope to the left movement, but he was run over by the fifth column of his own party. just like the US the UK is stuck in a two party system controlled by billionaires, hedge funds and the military-industrial complex
I've yet to see a leftist be pro-genocide. Tankies don't count. Tankies are confused edgy children.