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Sealioning (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's a clever method of trolling. But if you come prepared and/or are willing to put some effort in, you actually can wreck them with evidence and sound arguments that shuts them completely up.

This is very satisfying.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sealioning is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity, and feigning ignorance of the subject matter.

Often the troll will just shift slightly and keep making demands regardless of evidence.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Don't let them dictate the convo. You can assert control as well, don't let them lead uncontested.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Still sounds like feeding the troll

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The point is not to fight the troll.

The point is to inform the lurkers.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

If done poorly it very much is. But practice makes you better at it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

What's your usual method of parry?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It depends too much on way too many factors. Generally I'll be almost as polite as they're being.

Convos usually involve turn-taking though, so once you've provided evidence or a sound argument, you should not be forced to do it again. It should be their turn to assert something, and then possibly have to provide whatever.

Just don't let the opportunity pass to treat them exactly, or potentially slightly worse, depending, than they're treating you. Don't stay on defense, assert, ask questions, directly contradict, whatever is needful.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

When repetition occurs I link to the previous point in the conversation.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Remember the original discussion and don't take the bait to deviate. "We are not talking about X, we are talking about Y as originally posted by OP and I will not follow you down your rabbit hole."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

For me, relentless mockery is best

Inform them that you're wise to their game, and furthermore, they're an idiot. Doesn't cede the field to them but doesn't let them persist in bad faith questions.

Internet arguments are like a rock paper scissors game of evidence based arguments, sealioning, and good old fashioned trolling.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It's easier said than done, but it can be done. The key is to unleash your inner troll and embrace the "u mad bro" while being

I recommend engaging once or twice in good faith, then hounding them to make a hard claim you can disprove. If they don't, start politely asking if there's any part they'd like to elaborate on while dropping implications they didn't read or understand what you said, and then asking about their beliefs on the topic.

It happened to me on Lemmy a while ago, I don't think the guy was actually a troll (I think he just didn't like what I had to say about the world bank and imf being the reason central and South America have stayed so poor despite incredible natural resources)

The dude got so mad he started going through my old posts and calling me a hypocrite. But he made a mistake, that was a hard claim - there was no contradiction in my beliefs and stance. I slapped him down a few times before realizing my posts from days ago were getting a lot of responses

Once I started recognizing the username and realized what happened, I started getting patronizing... It was oh so satisfying. I kind of wish he'd kept going for longer

I love reverse trolling trolls, all of the fun and none of the guilt

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (5 children)

This is why we need seal clubbing

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don’t know. They stay out too late, get way too drunk and make a terrible racket when they get home.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can you provide evidence of one time this has ever happened in your area?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I constantly see ads for hot tight seals in my area.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pardon me, I couldn't help but overhear...

Would you mind showing me evidence of any negative thing any sea lion has ever done to you?

I'm just curious if you have any sources to back up your opinion that seal lions need clubbing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Fair enough, could you club me instead?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Beat and kill them while they're young and innocent before they become well informed, intelligent adults that can counter and challenge your firmly held beliefs?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

IM GONNA CLUB THIS SEAL TO MAKE A BETTER DEAL

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's also frustrating because there are people who are sincerely trying to discuss in good faith while having a different opinion, which is camouflage for the sealion trolls.

Of course, people increasingly forget about the former group completely, and react with hostility... It's understandable, but unfortunate for healthy discussion.

At least in your case, your response is to lay out robust arguments to explain your position, which is productive regardless of whether they're trolling or sincere. I've learned a great deal over the years from strangers on the internet putting a clinic on someone who may or may not have been trolling.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Accusing people of “sealioning” is a great way to not have to defend or discuss poorly thought out or sourced claims.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

True, which is why if someone accuses you of sealioning you should be prepared to explain your position and the reasoning you used to get there. Not asking questions of them but instead explaining your own position.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

The problem I see is when the original poster didn’t explain their point of view, but complain when you ask them to clarify.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So, the issue is that behaviorwise they're indistinguishable from each other.

Intentionally or unintentionally ignoring signals that a person isn't interested in debate or discussion with you is just as annoying to the person being bothered either way.

It doesn't matter if your intentions are sincere or not when you decide to pester someone into a debate they're not interested in having.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah true, the persistent pestering component is arguably always trolling. I guess that's one of the signals that you can use to distinguish.

I can still think of gray areas, but I guess that's why it's effective camouflage.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Another signal is their complete lack of interest in anything you've said outside of what they want to pester you about.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Care to provide any evidence to support this claim? I would like to have a civil discussion with you about this. /s

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just an anecdotal account. I was expressing my own experiences and how they make me feel, for which it would be challenging and largely unnecessary to provide evidence to a random dumbass on the internet, yes?

/not s, an example

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If your feelings are irrational, it's incumbent on you as a rational person to examine them and separate emotion from fact. Since you have no facts to back up your feelings, clearly the feelings are irrational and should not be used to inform your actions or viewpoints, correct?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not if I'm recounting a personal experience, no. Humans are not purely rational creatures, otherwise laissez faire capitalism would solve all the world's problems.

If I wished to be purely rational, then perhaps. But personally I do not think all feelings are worth disregarding.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

Would you mind providing evidence of a scenario in which it's good to be irrational? Because it sounds like you have some level of distaste for being rational, but I'm not seeing any source to back that up.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Perfect response!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

they don't shut up though, they just change topics
e.g. @clubbing4198/lemmy.world

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

you tried to provide an argument and then failed when i replied with evidence as to why you were wrong and then you just responded to as many comments as you could saying im spam after saying "fuck you". you labeled me as MAGA when you have no evidence other than im critical of biden and establishment dems.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

i clearly disproved your point but you just continue on... pretending like you "won"
and im calling you maga spam because of the shear volume of lie and disinformation that is anti-biden, and "biden is worse than trump"

fuck off, maga spam

im not pro biden, anyways... im anti-trump

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i clearly disproved your point

the one about immigration. the one regarding this information: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/13/title-42-migration-biden-new-policy-tougher

But for more than a year, Biden kept, and defended in court, Trump’s most sweeping border restriction: the Title 42 emergency order that allowed agents to cite the Covid-19 pandemic to quickly expel migrants without hearing asylum claims.

And this:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/politics/biden-considering-executive-action-to-close-southern-border-sources-say/index.html

cause you were saying that biden has done well for immigration. those articles read contrary to that narrative

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Show me one thing i have said that is pro tump? Biden is just as bad as trump not worse. Do not put words in my mouth

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

You seem like the AT&T of people.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Pardon me, I couldn't help but overhear. Would you mind showing me evidence of any negative thing Biden has ever done to you personally?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just call it out and redirect back to the topic. It's like training a dog.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

you can train a LLM like a dog...