this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2024
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Majority of People: I want a pony.
Candidate 1: I'm going to kill all the ponies.
Candidate 2: I won't do that, and will try to make ponies more affordable (because price-fixing the cost of ponies is not within my constitutional powers)
Leftist: "But that's not good enough! I want a free pony. And a blowjob. I'm voting 3rd party 😤"
Do keep in mind these aggressive purist Gatekeeping / no true Scot leftists are very often just right-wing astroturfers. It hits two birds with one stone: they make leftism obnoxious, they often muddy the waters of violence, and wedge-drive the Democratic coalition to get Trump elected.
Either that or they're very young and naive.
Don't fall for it. You'll see more of this the closer the election gets.
Oh, I'm not fooled (for the most part, anyway). I'm just giving the benefit of doubt and calling them out using their own arguments and trying to not make any assumptions or accusations.
The problem is they don't often argue in good faith. Usually deflection and gish-gallop are their MO. So be concise and be mindful of the bystander audience.
Oh, for sure. I never argue to change their minds, just to shut down whatever narrative they're trying to spin for the bystander audience. I'll usually play along with the gish-galloping as long as time allows but usually stop when they transition into sealioning.
Spot fucking on, but its that second group, the young and naive that make these points worth arguing and harping on about. Sometimes those of us whove been online our whole lives forget the indoctrinating power of the internet. Shit, thats what pushed me further and further left, and still does to this day.
And ur last sentence.... oof... i know.... brace yourselves, and kick up the counterefforts.
Great point - I don't mean to disparage those newcomers to politics. We've all been there of course.
I guess I gate-kept a bit there myself, and my apologies for that.
It's a few of the astroturfers leading a bunch of the young and naive.
Candidate 1: I will keep giving guns to the people killing ponies but I will feel bad about it and criticize them sometimes
Candidate 2: I will give the guns and not feel bad.
Leftist: hey can anyone just, you know, not help people kill ponies?
Centrist: omg I can't believe you're asking for so much from your candidates. Your ideological purity is the real enemy here. I bet you don't even care about ponies
It's called nuance and seeing the big picture, sweetie.
Haha yeah a very nuanced and realistic portrayal of leftists. Obviously we just want free ponies and blowjobs. Preventing geno-what? Never heard of it
Edit. Star Trek profile pic? Remember when the federation gave weapons and aid to the dominion because it was politically convenient and the cardassians are worse anyway? No neither do I.
For a second there, I was willing to accept you might be arguing in good faith, but the personal attack you felt the need to tack on destroyed that benefit of doubt and my willingness to continue in debate.
I am arguing in good faith, obviously. There was no personal attack. I'm sure you draw some distinction between pure morals (as in trek) and "real life" but I genuinely do not see how this is defensible. I'm sure you're a nice person
There was no personal attack there.
Have you ever talked to someone irl? If so, did you do it without crying?
Mmmm, I absolutely love that centrist condescension, "sweetie".
Candidate 2: I’m going to give guns and money to the person killing ponies but tell them they shouldn’t do it.
Leftist: Either way ponies are going to be killed. Let’s try something different.
Centrist: Noooo, you have to vote for the proxy pony killer who can’t use his position to do anything or else you’ll get a pony killer in power who’ll use his position to do everything.
"Something different" here meaning "handing over the position to the worse of the two options".
Acting like candidate 2 is at all a good option either.
Would you rather get stabbed in the finger or stabbed in the eye?
I’d rather stab the person trying to stab me anywhere.
You're getting stabbed whatever happens.
Would you rather get stabbed in the finger or stabbed in the eye?
Neither.
There is always other options, you just have to take them.
There aren't. There are only two possible outcomes.
Stabbed in the finger or stabbed in the eye?
Stabbed in the eye it is then.
Have fun losing more rights instead of compromising on Biden becsuse he isn't 100% perfect.
Have fun refusing to admit Biden is flawed.
Surely the status quo is the solution to stopping Trump and the growing threat of the right.
I have not seen a single person try and claim that Biden isn't flawed. It's entirely possible to criticize him and still vote for him given the only other possibility. Until we get away from FPTP voting there is only two options for president in the general election. You wont get away from FPTP voting until you can overrule the GOP in Congress. You cannot do that without winning elections.
The people you're arguing with aren't devoted to Biden. He's simply the only way we can keep Trump from retaking office at this moment. He's also done a lot of good things during his term. I'd argue he's been a net benefit to the country given the context.
We absolutely need to primary Biden and everyone like him, that work has to be done but that shit takes work and time. It's a lot easier to do when we can bring more people into the tent. Painting both parties as equally bad and not worthwhile of your vote is literally making it harder to reform the Democratic Party and actually achieve the things progressives are fighting for.
Correct. Biden winning the election will stop Trump winning the election.
Stopping Trump will do more to stop the growing threat of the right than not stopping Trump.
He was stopped last election yet the threat has only grown.
The threat didn’t start with him and it won’t stop with him. The threat will exist as long as living conditions continue to deteriorate and people seek more extreme politicians in the hope of something changing. Doesn’t matter how misplaced their thoughts on what the problems are.
Saying he isn't 100% perfect is either what you mean by flawed or you have a ridiculously high level of perfection to call him flawed.
Must be the latter.
lmao
Do y'all just, sincerely not understand what "lesser evil" means? Yes, the lesser evil is still bad. We know. That's what "evil" means. Both options suck, one sucks measurably more, so you choose the one that is less bad.
None of these "Both sides!" Leftists ever seem to offer specific or workable alternatives. It's always something vague like "Have our voices be heard, take back the country from the oligarchs!" And I feel that, but like, how? What specific candidate or action is going to prevent both from winning?
You said it so perfectly and I never realized it. "If you elect our guy, he won't be able to do anything, but at least it's better than if you elect the other guy. If you elect the other guy, somehow he'll be able to do everything he wants. But vote for our impotent guy instead. It's safe!"
Um what?
One follows the rules, and the other often doesn't even think there are rules. The difference there isn't hard to suss out. It's like that joke about playing chess with a pigeon.
You literally can't try something different, in this election. It's physically impossible. Leftists should be channeling this energy to the next election, and building a viable candidate that truly meets their needs.
The leftist in this comment also makes sure to plug their ears nice and good if u tell them that the first candidate is financed by foreign powers literally hostile to anything u hold dear, a situation beyond unprecedented.
Voting is the least u can do politically, but it is still praxis, and absolutely necessary given the circumstances.
Avasarala for president!