this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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What is the Lemmy narrative from your experience?
Israel bad, AI bad, police bad, Elon bad, Capitalism bad, Boeing bad, Microsoft bad, Apple bad, Facebook bad, rich people bad, landlords bad, C.E.O.s bad, ads bad, cars bad, SUVs/trucks very bad, piracy good, bikes good, uBlock Origin good, trains good, Linux good, bats good, Ukraine good, protests good, socialism good ...
Linux good should have been repeated at least 5 times in that list
I agree. Cannot repeat that one often enough.
At the very least it's much better than it used to be. So long as you're running hardware that won't make you jump through hoops to get working, and that's less common and less awful than it used to be.
i can easily agree with 90% of that. The remaining 10% needs asterisks pointing towards further nuanced discussion. I'll not specify which topics go into which category.
I also agree with most of that, but that doesn't make it OK to downvote opinions to the contrary for no other reason than "I disagree".
If comments of different perspectives, made in good faith get downvoted to oblivion then participation is discouraged, debate gets replaced with circle jerking and Lemmy becomes a very boring and out of touch echo chamber just like Reddit.
Downvotes should only be used for comments that are off topic, factually incorrect, hateful or made in bad faith etc.
So something like this comment: https://lemmy.ca/comment/9747509 Which equates not liking Elon Musk with hate groups against minorities?
Usually when people complain about something like "the Lemmy Narrative" they're usually not bringing nuanced discussion to their posts and are just upset that people aren't agreeing with their "hot takes."
Shit takes get downvoted. Rational disagreements don't.
If you define a "shit take" as a comment that is factually wrong and or harmful, that's fine and I've already said that. If your idea of a "shit take" is "I don't like / disagree with your opinion" then I hope you're fine with Lemmy becoming an out of touch echo chamber and I've also already said that. Why am I having to repeat myself?
It doesn't take much browsing here to see plenty of rational disagreements that have been downvoted for failing to conform with the groupthink.
How you think that people should use downvotes and how they actually use downvotes are two separate things.
If you don't like it, the solution is simple. You don't argue until you're blue in the face to get people to change. You remove downvotes.
Downvotes are a bad idea. We should have upvotes only.
and become facebook? I'd rather not.
That doesn't improve anything. I've been on sites with upvotes only and it doesn't lead to more productive discussions.
Often it results in more people posting low quality replies consisting of nothing more than "you're an idiot" because they cannot just downvote to indicate that. Meanwhile the person giving incorrect information feels bolstered by the 3 upvotes they have received that people agree with them, while ignoring the posts with 30 upvotes pointing out why they are incorrect.
I can agree to 80% but also disagree with 80%. None of those are simple cut and dry situations and a simple answer is naive at best. And, most importantly, I can say that without sitting on a fence
Couldn't have said it better myself. It's nuance that's almost entirely missing from much of online discussions. In my experience; the more I learn about a topic, the more I realize how much I don't know/how complex it is. Then there's also the fact that most simplistic and absolute statements are almost guranteed to be wrong. Not literally all cops are bad.
So why are you the one making simplistic absolute statements here? Are you just making a Strawman you can knock down?
Do you have an example on why any of these povs are wrong?
No, I don't think any of those claims is entirely wrong but I don't fully agree with most of them either.
What's this!? Complexity in your opinions!? Don't 100% agree or disagree on something based on a 3-5 word sentence?! Straight to jail.
Nuance is bad. It tries to make people think and that hurts their head!
I'm a renter, and my parents have never owned a house, so I've dealt with landlords all my life. I don't agree with "landlord bad". Are there shitty landlords? Yes. But it's a leap to go from that to "all landlords are bad".
Can you imagine the backlash from the same left-leaning group that goes "landlord bad" if you applied the same logic to a racial or religious group?
Landlords serve an important purpose in the marketplace and any uncontrolled rampant exploitation is a failure of the government and not the entire group of people who sell the service.
No one's born a landlord. It's not comparable to race in any way. Comparing racism to being against unregulated and manufactured housing scarcity feels like a really bad faith argument.
Okay, ignore race, consider only religion.
People are born into a religion and are free to leave it or embraced a different religion. It is completely in their choice.
Similarly, people can be born into a family that owns zero to two properties, are free to acquire more or sell what they have. It is completely in their choice.
Why is it okay to judge one group by the actions of "a few bad apples" and not the other?
So while I'm undecided on landlords, I think your logic is flawed. Are you saying that criticising the concept of owning land and charging people for housing is the same as being born into a socially constructed group or the same as choosing or being born into a organization structured around shared beliefs? Because I'm not sure they're quite the same thing.
No, I'm saying that it's unfair to criticize an entire group of people for the actions of some people who happen to belong to the same group while the rest are perfectly fine contributors to society.
On the other hand, if the sole purpose of the group is to spread hate/cause unrest/violence then I'd be okay with hating the entire group.
Hating landlord-ism as a concept makes sense to a certain extent, but I'm yet to see a realistic alternative provided by anyone. Hating landlords is something that I don't agree with. --> this seems to be a controversial stance.
Along the same lines, I hate religion but I don't hate all religious people. --> this isn't that controversial a stance. They're both essentially the same to me.
A realistic alternative? The occupant owns the dwelling. That removes the problem entirely. People can't afford to buy? Well if you can't own residential property you don't live in. Prices will correct.
Alternatively, the government historically has given most middle class Americans the majority of their generational wealth through land gift programs, then you gave first time homeowner loans, which could easily be retooled to give the property to those living there and have all payments go towards ownership,
There's so many options better than someone fucking you in the ass as hard as they can so you can bearly survive.
Venezuela
Lol what maniac would hold opposite opinions for all of these? I like AI though.
Burn the heretic! Buuuurrrrrnnnn!
Probably someone with limited reasoning capabilities who sees the world as black and white and thinks things are either good or bad but can't see the near infinite amount of nuance and complexity in them.
Says the person providing no nuance for the phantom people they are disagreeing with.
dbzer0 moment
Wow, quite an extensive list. Haven't expected that. Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, I guess there is some truth to it.
Wait, aide from all the others, "Boeing bad" is just a narrative? Dude, have you been living under a rock?
I've heard beans are good too.
God that got old quickly.
burn the witch
I've heard not pooping for three days is good too.
To be honest, I agree with all of these. Seeme line I am at the right place.
If we were just a few years short of total collapse in a socialist or communist economic system, would it be OK to call either system bad?
I've worked for so many retail corporations that are so single minded to quarterly earning going up to push stock prices up, they don't even care how much money they actually make, and what they pay people. You can make 2mil a day, and they will fire everyone and close the store because it wasn't 2.000002mil. A lot of things are breaking.
Imo the only actually divisive opinions are around tipping.
Cows are also good. Unless they are raised in a stock yard.