this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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A Boring Dystopia
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That's not true, but let's assume it is. What's the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
It most certainly is true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas
Doesn't excuse the Israeli administration, but Hamas 100% uses human shields, schools included.
I will need to see concrete evidence that these people were, in fact, members of the terrorist resistance before I believe claims that they were. However, we are currently assuming that all claims of terrorists being present are true for every strike. I would like you to know that I selected these strikes at random.
I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
I read earlier this year that Israel considered 100 civilian deaths for one Hamas fighter a fair trade. I can't find the exact article, but it was about their use of AI in deciding targets. According to this article a "10% failure rate" is totally acceptable. So, anywhere between 9-1 and 100-1 is within parameters. Children are a points multiplier.
I couldn't find the article i was looking for, and it's basically a rhetorical nswer to a rhetorical question. So, please take my cheek with a grain of salt.
The question they asked is in presumption for this to be true.
Your non-answer speaks volumes.
What is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?
If you don't know, the rational answer is 0 for the same reason why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.
The question is kind of bullshit though. It's meant to either get the other side to have an emotional response and say none or to be what you want perceived as a piece of shit and give a number. Let's try it on another question.
How many child deaths are permissible before we ban bicycles? Cars? Jump rope? Pools? If it's not 0, how dare you sir or ma'am. We're talking about children here!
There is a reason certain buildings are off-limits unless it starts being used by the opposing force's fighters. How would you fight a war against someone if they could just strike from an ambulance and then drive off, scott-free?
Also just want to throw out there that this type of thing is exactly what those who would use human shields want you to do. "Back off or we will put more civilians in front of us." Then they will publicize the aftermath to help their propaganda war.
Acceptable child to terrorist death ratio is legitimately 2:1 and accept 3:1 only if we get to eat the children afterwards.
Do you have the coupon?
I am also anti war so yes. I also dont judge life based on age but emotional sentiment does spread the ideal of stop killing eachother please.
The practice you described while i know this true in the US it may not be legal or moral elsewhere
I believe Europe has specifically forbidden “entrapment”
Entrapment: Law enforcement must avoid entrapment, which involves inducing someone to commit a crime they would not otherwise have committed. This is generally illegal in Europe and could lead to cases being thrown out in court.
Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet....
There's no where anyone can be that doesn't have a shit ton of civilians around, and due to the treatment of people who live in Gaza by Israel.... A lot of people in Gaza are children.
That's the whole reason the international community has been saying for almost a year you can't just flatten everything.
But they keep doing it. Because Israel sees civilian deaths in Gaza as a feature, not a bug.
Cool wikipedia article. But you should check out current reality sometime.
From you first link:
Your own excerpt says they were accused, and that it has not been recognized as Human Shielding.
Where as I'm certain I've seen videos of the Israeli military walking naked Palestinians through mine fields, shelled buildings, and into tunnels. I will not look it up again, I just simply wanted to point out that you're terrible at reading.
The human shield lie is dead. The majority of structures in Gaza have been bombed and rendered uninhabitable. Israel is just destroying everything indiscriminately and killing anything that moves outside the designated camps.
Was Hamas using over half of all structures in Gaza as operating bases? Get real.
It's already known that Hamas uses tunnels, why would they even be in the buildings at this point? This is just a campaign of total destruction.
Don't spread genocide denial.
They aren't bombing the tunnels, they're just blowing up hospitals and apartments and schools. The tunnels are unaffected.
Well firstly, the point of the bombing campaign is to make Gaza uninhabitable. The tunnels are irrelevant to that.
But more importantly, the tunnels are too deep to bomb and they don't know where the tunnels even are. At best they can bomb tunnel entrances, the tunnels themselves require deep penetration to attack directly.
Don't forget they're constantly torturing Palestinians in the prisons to get them to reveal the locations of tunnels.
It's a violation of international law.
But also? US law forbids giving military aid to nations that commit crimes against humanity, of which torture is recognized under international law.
The law doesn't apply to Israel.
Well, yeah, Israel is the 51st State. The law doesn't apply to Israel because it doesn't apply to the US. Even the US's own laws.
What's not true? That Israel is an extension of the US empire? Or that the law doesn't apply to these war criminals?
They can torture and rape Palestinians in their dungeons for fun and there are no consequences, and it's because they are fundamentally part of the American project.
Ugh, okay, obviously it's not legally a state. No shit. I call it a state to emphasize how integral it is to the US. It's not just power projection, like the Saudi allies or the Ukrainian allies, it's a fundamentally important component of the empire. The empire would be drastically different without Israel to act as a bulwark against African migration and unsinkable aircraft carrier to police oil and gas supplies and a laboratory of oppression for border technology and prison technology and surveillance technology.
The US values Israel higher than literally every other ally and vassal state put together. If the US somehow had to choose between sacrificing Israel or an actual state like Iowa, they'd happily nuke Iowa to keep Israel.
Israel's genocide isn't popular either but they're still doing it and they won't stop.
Israel is that important. Popularity comes second. What are people going to do anyway? Vote for the other guy? lol
Why would they still roof knock if they indiscriminately bomb everything?
They stopped roof knocking as standard policy back in October. Try to keep up.
The wiki says they are accused of it but lists many reports which found no evidence of this. In the current conflict there are apparently a couple of cases with hostages.
The big problem with most of these claims is that it's "proximate" shielding being alleged, which is not when you are literally shielding someone (as in the recent cases with Israel using Palestinians, and assumedly those with Hamas using the hostages), but when you are just sat at home, in school, whatever, going about your usual business totally unaware. But you are a "shield" because the enemy decides they want to attack something near you.
This quote really sums up the rhetorical strategy:
It is a trick so that Israel can avoid responsibility for it's actions. I'm not saying you are supporting Israel or denying their crimes (I know you explicitly didn't), but this rhetoric is WAY more common than genuine instances of human shielding, which thus far has primarily been done by Israel, not Hamas.
Likewise, this isn't excusing Hamas. Fuck them. But aside from the case with the hostages (didn't check the reference but I trust it), there is very little evidence that Hamas does this. Most of the time it is an outright deception.
Edit: this is from the report cited by wikipedia:
So clearly it does happen. But cases are rare and on both sides of the conflict
Mate, they lob unguided rockets in roughly the right direction. They are not targeting jak shit.
Ballistics can be predicted and modeled, I'm sure they can do the math for targeting. There's a lot of room for errors, but don't assume they're just just blind firing.
Israel also uses human shields.
But even if hamas did, that doesn't mean it is the case here. Just like how it wasn't the case when they said there is a military base under a hospital, only to find a single tunnel used to smuggle in medicine after they completely bombed it down, including its residents.
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