this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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A Boring Dystopia

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submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 142 points 7 months ago (6 children)

As far as I understand Israel doesn't claim that it didn't bomb a school area, it claims that it was filled with terrorists and had to go.

If I'm understanding this right, Israel is saying "this is the price that Gaza pays because we have to kill the terrorists" while also trying to minimize to the press how many civilians were actually caught up in these bombings.

Basically killing Hamas is above any Palestinian human rights for Israel, though I suspect that if the world wasn't watching, the genocidal government there would actually just straight up give orders to kill them all.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 7 months ago (1 children)

No need to suspect. They've said many times that global opinion is the only thing curbing their genocide.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/08/06/middleeast/israeli-minister-smotrich-starve-gazans-intl/index.html

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Nice, just straight up admit to it.

At least they are honest, right?

[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They have it in writing (leaked months ago) that some ridiculous number like over 1000 Palestinian civilian casualties were acceptable if they got to kill a terrorist.

Also, anyone in colors or in proximity to Hamas members or known gathering areas in the last 2 years, is automatically labeled a terrorist by Israel

Basically they pretend to have a formula to regulate civilian casualties but they have twisted its variables so far that any scenario can be solved by bombing no matter the collateral damage

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago (1 children)

i'm not sure the israeli government thinks there are civilians in palestine

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

Just yesterday I was playing the Batman telltale series. In it, Mayor Dent, during his descent into becoming Two Face, blows up a city block in Gotham in an attempt to thwart a terrorist organization. Two Face was put in a mental asylum for the action. I vote we do the same thing to Netanyahu.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Haven't the schools been closed for several months now? There shouldn't be any civilians in there, let alone kids.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago

Civilians are sheltering in the schools, since, you know, they’re running out of buildings.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

There shouldn’t be any civilians in there, let alone kids.

Drop enough bombs and you can be assured there isn't.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Fuck, Israel needs the gaza treatment.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 7 months ago (2 children)

No. Nobody needs the Gaza treatment. Jesus christ.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago

Fair. It just makes me angry seeing what they're doing. Thanks for calling me out.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

I don't think the guy you are replying to should be called Jesus Christ, it doesn't matter much to me as an atheist, but I think Jesus was against all this nonsense.

(This is a joke)

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[–] [email protected] 100 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Aha, but the precision strike was on the small first floor window on the north side of the block. The school was evidently on the east side of the block, many many centimetres away. Please ignore surrounding blocks completely destroyed by bombs.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 7 months ago (1 children)

School is actually the whole block, there's a white outline

[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago (2 children)

My mistake! Then that must have been the classroom with the terrorist inside.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago

The kids have no right to be outside if it is not recess.

Only terrorists are outside during non recess hours.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago

There was a pipe going from the window all the way down to the Hama's Tunnel under it with the terrorists.

The fighter jet of the brave Zionist tresistance just thread its way at low level between the rocket launchers of the evil Palestinians and hit that small hole causing the destruction of the entire evil outpost.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (4 children)

What is this supposed to tell us? Hamas used these as bases. Why shouldn't they (both)?

[–] [email protected] 76 points 7 months ago (2 children)

That's not true, but let's assume it is. What's the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (7 children)

It most certainly is true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas

Doesn't excuse the Israeli administration, but Hamas 100% uses human shields, schools included.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

I will need to see concrete evidence that these people were, in fact, members of the terrorist resistance before I believe claims that they were. However, we are currently assuming that all claims of terrorists being present are true for every strike. I would like you to know that I selected these strikes at random.

  • This claim states that there were 19 terrorists and 93 total killed at the Al-Tabi’in mosque and school on 08/10/24. Survivors state that most of the casualties were women and children. That means there was a 79.6% civilian casualty rate.
  • This claim states that there were 9 confirmed Hamas casualties of 40 killed at a school in the Nuseirat refugee camp on 06/06/24. The casualties were described as children and elderly, and this strike was verified by the source as using US munitions. That means there was a 77.5% civilian casualty rate.
  • This source claims that there have been (as of 07/06/24) 343 IDF soldiers killed and 38,000 confirmed Palestinian deaths with Israel claiming 1/3 of deaths are combatants. 66% civilian casualty rate since October 7th.

I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (3 children)

I will ask again: what is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?

I read earlier this year that Israel considered 100 civilian deaths for one Hamas fighter a fair trade. I can't find the exact article, but it was about their use of AI in deciding targets. According to this article a "10% failure rate" is totally acceptable. So, anywhere between 9-1 and 100-1 is within parameters. Children are a points multiplier.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (10 children)

The question they asked is in presumption for this to be true.

Your non-answer speaks volumes.

What is the acceptable child to terrorist death ratio?

If you don't know, the rational answer is 0 for the same reason why we dont let suspected pedophiles adopt children as a sacrifice to catch a bigger pedo ring.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago

Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas on the planet....

There's no where anyone can be that doesn't have a shit ton of civilians around, and due to the treatment of people who live in Gaza by Israel.... A lot of people in Gaza are children.

That's the whole reason the international community has been saying for almost a year you can't just flatten everything.

But they keep doing it. Because Israel sees civilian deaths in Gaza as a feature, not a bug.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

From you first link:

Hamas has also been accused of using human shields strategically by the UN Secretary General,[16] the European Union,[17] the United States,[18][19] along with Israel.[20] Launching rockets and positioning military infrastructure in civilian areas has been observed in various conflicts, including the 2008, 2014, and 2023 Israel–Hamas wars although is not considered as human shielding according to human rights organizations.[7] These actions have been criticized by various international bodies, including Amnesty International, which has documented instances where Palestinian militias stored munitions in and launched rockets from or nearby civilian structures.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Your own excerpt says they were accused, and that it has not been recognized as Human Shielding.

Where as I'm certain I've seen videos of the Israeli military walking naked Palestinians through mine fields, shelled buildings, and into tunnels. I will not look it up again, I just simply wanted to point out that you're terrible at reading.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

The wiki says they are accused of it but lists many reports which found no evidence of this. In the current conflict there are apparently a couple of cases with hostages.

The big problem with most of these claims is that it's "proximate" shielding being alleged, which is not when you are literally shielding someone (as in the recent cases with Israel using Palestinians, and assumedly those with Hamas using the hostages), but when you are just sat at home, in school, whatever, going about your usual business totally unaware. But you are a "shield" because the enemy decides they want to attack something near you.

This quote really sums up the rhetorical strategy:

"Israeli citizens in Tel Aviv are not classified as shields when Hamas launches rockets towards the Israel Defense Forces military command headquarters located in the city center. By sharp contrast, Palestinian civilians are cast as human shields when Israel bombs Hamas command centers and military infrastructures in Gaza. In other words, if Hamas kills Israeli civilians, it is to blame, and if Israel kills Palestinian civilians, then Hamas is also to blame, since, at least ostensibly, it is Hamas that has deployed these civilians as shields."

It is a trick so that Israel can avoid responsibility for it's actions. I'm not saying you are supporting Israel or denying their crimes (I know you explicitly didn't), but this rhetoric is WAY more common than genuine instances of human shielding, which thus far has primarily been done by Israel, not Hamas.

Likewise, this isn't excusing Hamas. Fuck them. But aside from the case with the hostages (didn't check the reference but I trust it), there is very little evidence that Hamas does this. Most of the time it is an outright deception.

Edit: this is from the report cited by wikipedia:

 A witness said that as Israeli forces advanced, the fighters phoned the Israeli police using one of the hostages as an interpreter, identified themselves as from the Qassam Brigades, and told the police that they would shoot those they held if the Israeli forces fired on them. During the standoff, the attackers forced about half the hostages into the yard of the home between Israeli forces and the fighters, according to two witnesses the New York Times interviewed. A man the attackers said was their commander took off his clothing and took Yasmin Porat, one of the hostages, outside to shield him as he surrendered to the Israelis. After the fighters fired again at the Israeli forces, an Israeli tank opened fire on the home. The fighters were killed, as well as 12 hostages who were killed in the crossfire. 

So clearly it does happen. But cases are rare and on both sides of the conflict

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (26 children)

The human shield lie is dead. The majority of structures in Gaza have been bombed and rendered uninhabitable. Israel is just destroying everything indiscriminately and killing anything that moves outside the designated camps.

Was Hamas using over half of all structures in Gaza as operating bases? Get real.

It's already known that Hamas uses tunnels, why would they even be in the buildings at this point? This is just a campaign of total destruction.

Don't spread genocide denial.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

Israel also uses human shields.

But even if hamas did, that doesn't mean it is the case here. Just like how it wasn't the case when they said there is a military base under a hospital, only to find a single tunnel used to smuggle in medicine after they completely bombed it down, including its residents.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Do you have any evidence for that claim

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Don't get me wrong, fuck Netanyahu but Hamas has a well established history of using human shields, schools most definitely included:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_human_shields_by_Hamas

To claim otherwise simply isn't true.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Wow examples from 10 years ago proving they haven't done it for a long time.

Got anything recent?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Lmao just fucking say you support genocide, do you have any idea how ridiculous you look parroting Israeli lies that have been debunked a thousand times over?

Like, we know what you’re doing. It’s really fucking obvious.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Debunked what? That Hamas stores weapons in schools? Or shoots rockets from there? Sure sure, all fake videos to discredit the humanitarian Hamas that would never do such a thing. Hamas also does not have any incentive to cause as many civilian casualties as possible. They care so much about their people, they even make videos promoting how they rip out water pipes to make rockets , because obviously shooting rockets at you sworn enemy is more important than having water for your people.

Every single innocent person getting killed on both sides is a massive tragedy. But just letting Hamas be is obviously not an option anymore. They need to be removed, just like Nazis in WW2.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

how many civilians is it okay to kill to remove 1 hamas

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

You linked a YouTube video instead of any actual source. Maybe try a little harder next time.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

People who post things like this, especially Linkerbaan, have to believe that the public has access to all of the information Israel and others have about where Hamas is at any given time. Some of the responses here seem to indicate that as well.

I simply don't believe that's the case. Imagine thinking that information which is probably secret or top secret (or whatever labeling system Israel uses) that Israel is using to make decisions is probably just online for them to review.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

They forgot to thank Biden, Harris and The USA for the thousands of bombs they have provided for Israel's genocide. and the coming 20 Billion more of military support.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

Listen, this might have looked like a school, but I assure you everyone inside that they killed was an October 7th terrorist.

They had thousands of miles of tunnels under there, with a million rockets ready to be fired. All supplied by Iran.

These school bombings were in self defense. And if you think otherwise, you're Antisemitic

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