this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
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Science Memes

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[–] [email protected] 168 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"humans will survive for hundreds millions of years. But I'll be long gone in like 40 and I'll have gotten everything I every wanted. So change nothing, and fuck you."

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

Homo Sapiens may survive for 10 million years, but I don’t think that is where the smart money is.

[–] [email protected] 143 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

2015:

Like other Republicans, Paul would repeal Obamacare, partially privatize Social Security, move Medicare to a " premium support" system for future retirees, and block-grant Medicaid and food stamps. But he's also proposed budget cuts of 20 percent or more to NASA, the National Institutes of Health, the FDA, and the EPA — and cuts of 60 percent or more to the National Science Foundation, State Department, and Interior Department, among many others. Plus he's proposed eliminating the Departments of Energy and Education entirely. "It's the most detailed expression of what a libertarian approach to budgeting would look like to date," Matthews writes.

Off to a great start!

[–] [email protected] 62 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'll ask that guy, if I ever want to make a country as shit as possible for everyone but the rich.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 11 months ago (3 children)

The rich don't stay rich without peasants to work for them and buy their shit. If everyone else dies or leaves, the rich are in trouble too.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

That's why they're so keen on AI

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Leaving likely won't be much of a problem since you won't have enough money to leave either. Dying on the other hand....

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, start terraforming other planets please... but don't use money to do it, I want the money. I'll give it to my friends instead, but please go terraform other planets for me.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Other than Mars, I'm curious as to what other planets (plural, his words) he thinks could be terraformed. Venus is too damn hot, mercury is too close to the sun, and the rest are gas giants.

Is he proposing to colonise planets beyond our solar system?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

No, see, he gives $1 billion to his friends so that they can put $1m toward terraforming other planets

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"Libertarian": zero mention of the DoD budget.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

DoE is responsible for maintaining american nukes, military is not having it

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

He wants to terraform planets with no spatial budget? What does he propose, sending a flask of germs with a trébuchet?

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So... he'll push for a massive NASA budget increase, right?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

No, free market will solve it! SpaceX! (/s)

[–] [email protected] 59 points 11 months ago (7 children)

I maintain that we have a battle of world views going on here. In some ways it's about the myths we believe in. Most environmentalists believe in what I call the Hobbit Paradigm: we live in a beautiful garden, and if we grounded ourselves in relationships with our communities (including nature) we would have a good and sustainable life. Many technocentrists believe in what I call the Star Trek Paradigm: humans are limitlessly ingenious, technological solutions will save us, and Nature is viewed with an anthropocentric utilitarian ethic.

I do not believe in the Star Trek Paradigm. It's hubris. I also don't think it's a very pragmatic paradigm. We live in a world we evolved to live in. Not worrying about this world because we think terraforming other planets and setting up space bases might be a possibility is not comprehending the Good or risk very well, IMHO.

I suppose a third paradigm is cold-blooded, individualist Realpolitik; It's a dog eat dog world, fuck you, I'm just trying to get mine as hard as everyone else is. In this case Space Colonisation is just a beard to disguise a callous and usurious relationship to the beings is this world.

That makes the conflict one of story, of myth, which means no one will have their minds changed by facts. They're belief systems. We need to expose those fundamentally short -sighted or selfish beliefs. We need to tell better stories, and expose the ridiculousness of the other stories.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

The issue is once you educate yourself in science and engineering, you realize that teraforming planets isn't something you just do. And you can't realistically rely on a technology that doesn't exist. The real problem here is one of education. The facts and the seriousness of climate change do not support his dumbass argument, and we'll all be dead by the time everyone comes to an agreement and realizes, oh shit nobody is going to save us from climate change but us.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You can easily be an environmentalist and still believe in the Star Trek paradigm. While we, that is mankind, might have the ingenuity to find technological solutions to most of our problems, we do not have the political or economic systems necessary to actually put these solutions into reality.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Or just that we should start small with the immediate existential threat on the planet that people already are on

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There’s also a fourth attitude. We live on a planet uniquely suited to the kind of life it gave rise to, such as ourselves. The climate of it before we began pumping tons and tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere was generally tolerable. Sometimes we had great periods like the medieval warm period and sometimes we had natural devastation like the little ice age. We’re in the process of going from bad to worse and if we don’t let up with our emissions soon we’re gonna have to get a lot better at every form of engineering really fucking fast

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

we’re gonna have to get a lot better at every form of engineering really fucking fast

Unfortunately that’s what we humans are really fucking good at. Nothing quite like a deadline, a sprinkling of procrastination, and a daunting technological existential hurdle to inspire a half-baked, good enough for now solution.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Politicians are extremely shortsighted. Many cant even see past their own noses

[–] [email protected] 22 points 11 months ago

That's not true, that's simply what they want you to believe.

They know what they're doing, they know it's not in our interest, they play dumb and the uniparty marches on.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They can track down your money by smell, though

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Hundreds of millions

Even without climate change I doubt that humans would survive more than 1-2k years from now.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The only way humans' progeny will exist for millions of years is if we manage to make it through the great filter and spread out to other planets, assuming we can find planets suitable for open-environment habitation.

We're quite good at making more of ourselves than is sustainable, so the only way of keeping ourselves going that long is to spread out.

Of course by then I'm sure several new species of humans will have emerged.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

Overpopulation doesn't usually lead to extinction. Mass die-offs sure, but not extinction.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (9 children)

I just want to point out that there is almost zero scientific evidence to suggest that climate change will cause the extinction of humanity, and substantial evidence to the contrary.

It may make the world a much worse place to live, but the doomers are almost as unscientific as the deniers.

Queue angry buzzing noises.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago (6 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

I mean to be clear I’m fully on board with rapid decarbonization. But when you get the facts wrong in this way, you give fuel for idiots like Ron Paul, and fill people with a paralyzing pessimism that makes change less, and not more likely. There is also research to support this point—climate optimists are more likely to take action rather than doom scrolling on Twitter or whatever.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Even if humans don't go extinct, surely untold masses will die from food shortages and disasters.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

You're not wrong at all, humans won't go extinct. The alarming thing is all the other things which will go extinct or be reduced in number, and the change in water/soil/weather sources obviously. Biodiversity and not having your neighbourhood turned into a desert are pretty important things to like, not have life suck. Plus you know, having access to clean water... humans will keep growing in number (mainly in Africa, probably the opposite in the developed world and countries like China and India though), but in 50 years we'll all be living like wartorn Syrian children*

*I am not a climate scientist, nor do I have much actual knowledge on climate science, so I do not know which precise flavor of impoverished middle eastern we will become

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (4 children)

What about what he said implies he thinks human-caused climate change isn't possible on Earth? He just thinks it won't kill us.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

People are more than isolated tweets. He's a man who's made hundreds of public statements on climate change in the past, only one of which is contained in this tweet.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Then why does he think we need to create habitats on the moon or other planets? Just stay here if we can last for hundreds of millions of years. The Lord will provide, right?

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

To be fair... if we did manage to develop terraform-level atmospheric processing, we could set the CO2 level on Earth to whatever we want. Maybe that's what he was trying to say?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago

That's not true. That's like saying "If we had refrigerators, we could keep food good forever". As you know, food in the fridge can still go bad, because no technology is perfect. I think that terraforming technology will be an extension of techniques we can use on earth today, like controlling emissions. And that saving earth from apocalypse is the best possible practice we could have for fixing other planets. There is no magic "fix everything" button. Even with the right technology, you still have to do the work. Today, we have the right technology to save Earth, and what determines the continued survival of the human species is whether it is capable of doing the work.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

If you start with the assumptions that Earth is regulated by YHWH by divine intervention and that all other planets are gifted to humanity by the same to do with as we will, this absurd belief follows naturally.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The reality is that Republicans cannot determine any difference between surviving and thriving.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

"Surviving" is one thing. Why can't we also continue to enjoy life like you guys got to do? You wouldn't have been able to last a day in the world you left for us. Which is why as it got closer and closer to affecting you too, you just pushed harder and harder to keep it away from you, doing more and more damage for the rest of us to feel instead.

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