"humans will survive for hundreds millions of years. But I'll be long gone in like 40 and I'll have gotten everything I every wanted. So change nothing, and fuck you."
Science Memes
Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!
A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.
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Homo Sapiens may survive for 10 million years, but I don’t think that is where the smart money is.
2015:
Like other Republicans, Paul would repeal Obamacare, partially privatize Social Security, move Medicare to a " premium support" system for future retirees, and block-grant Medicaid and food stamps. But he's also proposed budget cuts of 20 percent or more to NASA, the National Institutes of Health, the FDA, and the EPA — and cuts of 60 percent or more to the National Science Foundation, State Department, and Interior Department, among many others. Plus he's proposed eliminating the Departments of Energy and Education entirely. "It's the most detailed expression of what a libertarian approach to budgeting would look like to date," Matthews writes.
Off to a great start!
I'll ask that guy, if I ever want to make a country as shit as possible for everyone but the rich.
The rich don't stay rich without peasants to work for them and buy their shit. If everyone else dies or leaves, the rich are in trouble too.
That's why they're so keen on AI
Leaving likely won't be much of a problem since you won't have enough money to leave either. Dying on the other hand....
Yeah, start terraforming other planets please... but don't use money to do it, I want the money. I'll give it to my friends instead, but please go terraform other planets for me.
Other than Mars, I'm curious as to what other planets (plural, his words) he thinks could be terraformed. Venus is too damn hot, mercury is too close to the sun, and the rest are gas giants.
Is he proposing to colonise planets beyond our solar system?
No, see, he gives $1 billion to his friends so that they can put $1m toward terraforming other planets
"Libertarian": zero mention of the DoD budget.
DoE is responsible for maintaining american nukes, military is not having it
He wants to terraform planets with no spatial budget? What does he propose, sending a flask of germs with a trébuchet?
So... he'll push for a massive NASA budget increase, right?
No, free market will solve it! SpaceX! (/s)
I maintain that we have a battle of world views going on here. In some ways it's about the myths we believe in. Most environmentalists believe in what I call the Hobbit Paradigm: we live in a beautiful garden, and if we grounded ourselves in relationships with our communities (including nature) we would have a good and sustainable life. Many technocentrists believe in what I call the Star Trek Paradigm: humans are limitlessly ingenious, technological solutions will save us, and Nature is viewed with an anthropocentric utilitarian ethic.
I do not believe in the Star Trek Paradigm. It's hubris. I also don't think it's a very pragmatic paradigm. We live in a world we evolved to live in. Not worrying about this world because we think terraforming other planets and setting up space bases might be a possibility is not comprehending the Good or risk very well, IMHO.
I suppose a third paradigm is cold-blooded, individualist Realpolitik; It's a dog eat dog world, fuck you, I'm just trying to get mine as hard as everyone else is. In this case Space Colonisation is just a beard to disguise a callous and usurious relationship to the beings is this world.
That makes the conflict one of story, of myth, which means no one will have their minds changed by facts. They're belief systems. We need to expose those fundamentally short -sighted or selfish beliefs. We need to tell better stories, and expose the ridiculousness of the other stories.
The issue is once you educate yourself in science and engineering, you realize that teraforming planets isn't something you just do. And you can't realistically rely on a technology that doesn't exist. The real problem here is one of education. The facts and the seriousness of climate change do not support his dumbass argument, and we'll all be dead by the time everyone comes to an agreement and realizes, oh shit nobody is going to save us from climate change but us.
You can easily be an environmentalist and still believe in the Star Trek paradigm. While we, that is mankind, might have the ingenuity to find technological solutions to most of our problems, we do not have the political or economic systems necessary to actually put these solutions into reality.
Or just that we should start small with the immediate existential threat on the planet that people already are on
I've heard this phrased as Wizard vs Prophet
https://grist.org/politics/wizards-and-prophets-face-off-to-save-the-planet/
There’s also a fourth attitude. We live on a planet uniquely suited to the kind of life it gave rise to, such as ourselves. The climate of it before we began pumping tons and tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere was generally tolerable. Sometimes we had great periods like the medieval warm period and sometimes we had natural devastation like the little ice age. We’re in the process of going from bad to worse and if we don’t let up with our emissions soon we’re gonna have to get a lot better at every form of engineering really fucking fast
we’re gonna have to get a lot better at every form of engineering really fucking fast
Unfortunately that’s what we humans are really fucking good at. Nothing quite like a deadline, a sprinkling of procrastination, and a daunting technological existential hurdle to inspire a half-baked, good enough for now solution.
Politicians are extremely shortsighted. Many cant even see past their own noses
That's not true, that's simply what they want you to believe.
They know what they're doing, they know it's not in our interest, they play dumb and the uniparty marches on.
Hundreds of millions
Even without climate change I doubt that humans would survive more than 1-2k years from now.
The only way humans' progeny will exist for millions of years is if we manage to make it through the great filter and spread out to other planets, assuming we can find planets suitable for open-environment habitation.
We're quite good at making more of ourselves than is sustainable, so the only way of keeping ourselves going that long is to spread out.
Of course by then I'm sure several new species of humans will have emerged.
Overpopulation doesn't usually lead to extinction. Mass die-offs sure, but not extinction.
I just want to point out that there is almost zero scientific evidence to suggest that climate change will cause the extinction of humanity, and substantial evidence to the contrary.
It may make the world a much worse place to live, but the doomers are almost as unscientific as the deniers.
Queue angry buzzing noises.
I mean to be clear I’m fully on board with rapid decarbonization. But when you get the facts wrong in this way, you give fuel for idiots like Ron Paul, and fill people with a paralyzing pessimism that makes change less, and not more likely. There is also research to support this point—climate optimists are more likely to take action rather than doom scrolling on Twitter or whatever.
Even if humans don't go extinct, surely untold masses will die from food shortages and disasters.
You're not wrong at all, humans won't go extinct. The alarming thing is all the other things which will go extinct or be reduced in number, and the change in water/soil/weather sources obviously. Biodiversity and not having your neighbourhood turned into a desert are pretty important things to like, not have life suck. Plus you know, having access to clean water... humans will keep growing in number (mainly in Africa, probably the opposite in the developed world and countries like China and India though), but in 50 years we'll all be living like wartorn Syrian children*
*I am not a climate scientist, nor do I have much actual knowledge on climate science, so I do not know which precise flavor of impoverished middle eastern we will become
What about what he said implies he thinks human-caused climate change isn't possible on Earth? He just thinks it won't kill us.
People are more than isolated tweets. He's a man who's made hundreds of public statements on climate change in the past, only one of which is contained in this tweet.
Then why does he think we need to create habitats on the moon or other planets? Just stay here if we can last for hundreds of millions of years. The Lord will provide, right?
To be fair... if we did manage to develop terraform-level atmospheric processing, we could set the CO2 level on Earth to whatever we want. Maybe that's what he was trying to say?
That's not true. That's like saying "If we had refrigerators, we could keep food good forever". As you know, food in the fridge can still go bad, because no technology is perfect. I think that terraforming technology will be an extension of techniques we can use on earth today, like controlling emissions. And that saving earth from apocalypse is the best possible practice we could have for fixing other planets. There is no magic "fix everything" button. Even with the right technology, you still have to do the work. Today, we have the right technology to save Earth, and what determines the continued survival of the human species is whether it is capable of doing the work.
If you start with the assumptions that Earth is regulated by YHWH by divine intervention and that all other planets are gifted to humanity by the same to do with as we will, this absurd belief follows naturally.
The reality is that Republicans cannot determine any difference between surviving and thriving.
"Surviving" is one thing. Why can't we also continue to enjoy life like you guys got to do? You wouldn't have been able to last a day in the world you left for us. Which is why as it got closer and closer to affecting you too, you just pushed harder and harder to keep it away from you, doing more and more damage for the rest of us to feel instead.