this post was submitted on 24 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 148 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

/e/OS is android lol. Yes it's better than the version of android that ships with phones by default, but grapheneos is still way better than e/os (even though they're all android)

[–] [email protected] 60 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (15 children)

We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS. Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don't want to take. I'll take calyxOS or divestOS until then.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS.

GOS has strict hardware requirements to increase security that currently only Pixels meet. They won't, and shouldn't, compromise their standards which would give you a weaker OS. Want GOS on other vendors? Convince those vendors to up their hardware game.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Yes, hardware requirements for Android need to be higher. That's the only way you get other manufacturers.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Unfortunately the fact that NFC can't be used on anything that's rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker. If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago

Unfortunately the fact that NFC can't be used on anything that's rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker.

NFC can be used on GOS, and they frown on rooting.

If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.

It's due to PlayIntegrity API wanting a "Google certified OS," which is ironically less secure than hardware attestation that GOS supports. I doubt Google would change their model, but your bank might. Some banks do support GOS, and they have changed at the request of their customers before. Send them the GOS documentation and you might get lucky.

https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago (3 children)

not being able to use contactless pay does not equal "NFC can't be used on anything".

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sorry, I don't understand the motivation here, you want to not let Google spy on you via their OS, but are perfectly happy to give them your entire payment record?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not my entire payment record but certainly everything I use my phone to pay for. I'm willing to give Google some of my info as long as I'm in control of what info I'm giving them. Everything I do on my phone is too much. If a 3rd party offered a NFC payment app I'd happily use that over GPay, but until that exists GPay is the only option. Ultimately GPay is safer than using actual credit cards because it's more resistant to skimming. The extra security outweighs the loss of privacy in this specific case. I'm not happy about that but there doesn't seem to be a better alternative at this time.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?

What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.

If you care about "secure" payments that much, why not use cash?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Banking apps work, at least mine do. NFC works.

Only tap to pay doesn't work.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Been using GrapheneOS for close to 2 years, love it. Not perfect, but it's solid & does everything I need well enough. Even with the minor bugs, it's a hell of a lot better than having Google's or any other vendor's proprietary bloatware stuck on there.

I would say you should use GrapheneOS first, if you don't have a Pixel, use DivestOS, if you can't use that, use /e/. That's the order I would put them in for security and privacy.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Not only is it still Android but the thing that the article says is special about it, blocking trackers and stuff, is trivial to do without installing a custom OS image. Change your DNS, trackers/ads gone.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Almost every paragraph is it's own, self-sufficient, malignant cancer. How did this even get published?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

AI: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Even the name is a marketing turd

[–] [email protected] 38 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Iirc E/OS is based on Lineage, but takes a horrifying long time to patch in security updates on top of Lineage's already somewhat laggy patches. If you choose to use it make sure you're aware of that going in.

Also, like IIGxC said it's a android. Maybe slightly more private that most stock versions on most phones. But that's like saying [insert Linux distro] is better than Linux.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)

LineageOS will only patch Android. It will not patch hardware vulnerabilities after the device no longer has support from the manufacturer.

Both of these OSes are dangerous for privacy and security.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

What's your suggestion for hardware patches after the manufacturer ends support?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

There is no option. There is too much variation in the various phone chips for the hardware hacking community to reverse engineer more than a bare handful. And as soon as the hardware has been reverse engineered, it will never be used again by a manufacturer making the exercise largely pointless.

Add to that, the fact that Qualcomm actively discourages long term support of their chips….

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's why Fairphone choose a QCM6490 for the fairphone 5. It's far from being the best, but it has longer term support than mainstream oriented SOC.

Since the SOC will probably be enough for most of users, it's not a bad option I guess.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Well then I really hope the Fairphone 5 is gonna get really long term support and start a new trend in that regard.

Just buying a new phone every 5 years isn’t sustainable!

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

Exactly my point. Thank you.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Get a new phone the vendor does support.

Firmware patching is applying low-level firmware to the modem or baseband, similar to a BIOS update on a desktop or server. These binary libraries are (a) proprietary, and (b) opaque to the user (meaning they're not documented like normal software)

Once a vendor drops support for a platform, that's it, that's the end of the line. The device will still work, but any, glitches, firmware vulnerabilities, or updates for network-side changes will no longer be addressed.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

This is just not realistic though, as the support is so short. You cannot buy phones ever few years. Only thing you can realistically do is apply at least Lineage and exercise caution.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Although using an up to date Android userspace is still less bad than stopping all the updates once the vendor jumps the ship.

It's not going to stop a dedicated attacker, but having a somewhat secure webview that's not going tu crumble under the first piece of malicious javascript goes a long way towards the peace of mind.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (6 children)

If a rootkit is hiding at the hardware level, it may not matter what operating system or web browser you're using on your phone. A rootkit at this low level could potentially evade detection by the OS and modify files or memory without the operating system's knowledge. It may also be able to disrupt secure boot processes and monitor radio transmissions like Bluetooth, WiFi, and NFC.

Once an exploit is found that works on a particular device model, and attackers know the device manufacturer will never release firmware updates again, they could start searching for any users of that phone model. A rootkit installed this way may remain on the phone permanently since firmware updates are no longer being provided. The phone user may be unaware their device has been compromised.

LineageOS does not employ a dedicated security engineer for each phone model. Maintainers with LineageOS typically take the latest firmware from the original device manufacturer and import it into their build process. But if the latest firmware release from the manufacturer is already three years old, it's possible there may now be several undiscovered vulnerabilities in that outdated code.

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Ultimately the real solution to a lot of these problems is likely to be a Linux phone OS. It's something being actively worked on, but it's still only half baked and I wouldn't recommend anyone daily drive a Linux phone. Maybe in a few more years it will reach a state where it's actually usable.

One thing that would help a lot is if some company stepped up to provide a platform agnostic NFC payment solution that worked on both iOS and Android. As far as I'm aware if you want NFC payment you have exactly one choice depending on your OS, and both Apple and Google brick NFC if you root your device.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I really want to use my PinePhone Pro, but it's been in a box since the week I bought it.

I thought I was going to start hacking around, but then I didn't have the time. It has everything I want from a phone, except for software.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I would definitely try it, but all the phones I've been looking at recently don't have any support whatsoever for any of those types of custom OS's. No Lineage, no anything. All because they're not flagship models and are more budget friendly phones (and have what I'm looking for: headphone jack and SD slot).

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I like /e/OS, but the app lounge bothers me a lot. There is no uninstall button and it is not possible to add Fdroid repos... So I have Fdroid installed in addition to it.

I do not see an added value as if I had the aurora store installed + Fdroid.

IMO, the best addition of e/OS compared to lineage is clearly the tracker /ad blocker app.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Unless it has changed the app lounge is just a different frontend for Aurora store.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I think the greatest hindrance to /e/ is the fact that so few devices are supported. The article lists Fairphone as a supported device but that doesn't retail in my country. Most Chinese OEMs (that form the bulk in my nation) won't be supported by it. I have had a Nokia and a Samsung but even those two models are nope. One would need to go with the express purpose of installing alternative OS's and then purchase supported phones like Pixel probably, if they wanna indulge in this. But normal people aren't gonna do this. They are going to purchase the phone that fits the price vs performance ratio for them rather than alternative OS criterion.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

so few devices are supported >?<

I don't agree with that, take a look at this:

Officially supported devices and the list of unofficial /e/ builds part1 and part2 (those might not be working as good as official builds)

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I love /e/OS, but it's not better. I've had a lot of issues ranging from GPS being inaccurate, MMS not working, and most annoyingly : the play store alternative works (app lounge) works 1% of the time..

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Which version and phone are you on ? I'm on "t" version on a Oneplus 7 et I have none of these issues.

I first installed the "s" version and got annoying bugs, then switched to the "t" one and everything was OK. I now all the version aren't available on every devices, I hope you can switch on a more stable one.

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