Think of the money we'd all have if we were the ones selling our data
this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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Big tech companies making vast profits off of users providing data for free instead of paying workers wages in exchange for manufacturing goods is only going to deepen the disparity of wealth in society.
What we desperately need is essentially a Digital Bill of Rights so that we can legally own our own data.
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The amount is incredibly vaste. If we go by quantity no one here is getting a dime, and if we go by quality...it's probably the same. Not to mention the logistics of getting everyone their penny or two.
And the data right now belongs to everyone. For example, Reddit technically 'owns' it's content, but anyone can use it for ml purposes.
It's why a lot of these campaigns about data ownership are being pushed. If the gov passes laws, it won't be to the benefit of the individual but the data aggregators like Reddit, Shutterstock, etc.
They are playing on emotions and manipulating people into thinking killing AI FOSS and erecting data barriers is in their interest.
Don't mind my tipsy Friday rambling, but this is actually an interesting thing to think about. Kinda wonder how that would work, if it were to be real. Maybe there'd be a single centralized data broker, or we could choose from a list of vendors, like how sharing cookies works.
Would it be per a specific amount of data, identifiable data, what if we just dumped 10 years of chats into it.
Maybe there’d be a single centralized data broker
Hmm like a government office? With the power to adhere marks to ip that prevent copying and granting rights to people? Like a department of copy-right or something
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IMO it’s one thing if you posted things publicly on the internet and it’s getting scraped, in the same way a human would find it.
But it’s disgusting when all these companies retroactively update their TOS, or force you into zero privacy to continue using their service.
They were already doing that stuff with your data but now they're telling you about it.
They were already doing this but now they're beginning to become afraid of the legal ramifications. Using data like this hasn't gotten so close to redistribution of Common Law copyrighted work .
If someone can provide evidence of an AI regurgitating their work verbatim or with no alterations they can be in serious legal trouble. We all have this right, but they have the right to sign a contract with us outlining the terms of the copyright and or granting them a perpetual license to the work. Just remember any work you do for your company isn't yours but the companies as per the work for hire doctrine.
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They told us before. But memes
This is the entire issue for me.
Privatizing what is otherwise public content, and then privatizing the models that are trained on that content and making me pay for having it regurgitated back at me.
I think AI would be really cool, IF:
- it wasn't being shoved into every goddamn thing
- it wasn't being used as justification to cut jobs
- it was a open source project and wasn't being gatekept by capitalist interests
Exactly THIS ☝️! Well put! Thanks mate!
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There is no "data ownership". It's all made up. If you don't want people to copy and build off your ideas, don't share them. That's not to defend corpos Btw. I posit that any ai models trained on public data must be open sourced by default.
Autodesk has mandatory cloud saves, and MS got caught training on private github repos. They don't care whether it's public or not
What did the user agreement say? Also just out of curiosity do you remember all those privacy nuts back in the day who warned us all about the dangers of closed source software?
"Private github repos" arent really private. You have to selfhost for that.
Your heart rate. Your step count. Your location. Your searches. Your browser history. Your call history. Your contacts. Your transactions. Your credit history. Your medical history. This is data that you didn't choose to create or share, but that you exhaust in the day-to-day things you do.
Surveillance capitalism has grown too unfathomably huge and ingrained to choose not to share this data; that would be akin to checking out of modern life wholesale in a lot of ways. Guarding this data takes not only the realisation that it needs guarding, but changing law and culture such that the parties that have to have all that data to provide you with services cannot take it from you to sell.
There's a difference between private data and content. Obviously this is not what we're talking about here
AI is here and it's here to stay whether we want it or not, either it's free and legal for everyone to develop (ie training on copyrighted data does not violate copyrights), or only the massively rich corporations will be able to afford to pay for (or already happen to have the rights to as the case may be, see stock photo companies or reddit for examples) the sheer amounts of data that are needed to adequately train them
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Yeah, I'm genuinely feeling like I don't want to publish things I create onto the internet, because these companies will gladly break laws to use it. Companies spent decades building up ridiculous copyright laws and when they go to violate those laws themselves, law enforcement fails.
Don't. Please stop. Don't publish anything you don't want shared. There was so much cool free stuff that everyone shared until content creators showed up trying to sell us shit like a bunch of car salesmen. Please stop
Oh, I do want it shared. I just don't want to be taken advantage of by immoral companies. That's why I would share it under licenses like AGPLv3 or CC BY-NC-SA. In a sense, I'm very much blocking others from taking the free stuff I share and turning it into a commercial product, because I do feel the same as you.
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Just create demented shitposts that will poison any AI, like the ones trained on Reddit posts telling users to put glue on their pizza and make chlorine gas.
I'm [email protected] all the way (even my email).
Highly recommend it, even if you start small with like just your calendar or something.
Even if you can't self-host, maybe one of your friends can/does and would set you up on their stuff. I've got a handful of friends and family hooked into my stack (email, Nextcloud, Matrix, Lemmy, AdGuard DNS, etc).
My RAM weeps.
I felt that lol.
Do you have a good "getting started" resource for self-hosting that you would point people to?
Not really, though there's probably something like that out there. It's more a collection of skills that build on each other, finding a problem to solve, and then solving it (with occasional detours along the way to fill in any knowledge gaps).
Basically, just stack these on top of each other:
- Learn basic Linux skills (I can't in good conscious recommend hosting or even using Windows)
- Familiarize yourself with web standards. Don't have to be an expert, just understand the basic concepts (web traffic is HTTP based, HTTP usually runs on port 80, HTTPS is secure/encrypted HTTP, don't send passwords over HTTP, etc).
- Find a self-hosted project you'd like to play with. Usually you can just google "self hosted {thing}" such as "Self hosted trello"
- The previous step will typically land you on a Github or other project page. Review the docs for getting started on those.
- You'll likely encounter terms or things you don't understand. Detour to familiarize yourself with them.
- Follow the steps to get your first service up and running.
- Enjoy!
- Once you're past that, you can fine tune, re-deploy in a better way, or otherwise optimize.
The next thing you decide to deploy will usually be easier and will further extend and cement the skills you've just used.
It's definitely a process and collection of skills rather than just one monolithic thing, but each one builds off the other. There's a learning curve, sure, but just reading the docs for different things will usually get you going or provide a "jumping off" point. e.g. Many services utilize Docker, so you'll see that in a lot in the docs and probably end up detouring to learn the basics of working with it.
Some self-hostable applications do have easy deploy scripts which can definitely be good for beginners, but I tend to not like those as if/when something goes wrong, you're ill-equipped to do any meaningful troubleshooting.
Members of various selfhosted communities are usually happy to help as long as you're willing to learn; we typically don't like to just do it for you lol.
You've just shared some data for free for anyone to use. Self-hosting doesn't mean shit, my friend.
Yeah? That was the intention, lol. I self-host not because I'm a tinfoil hatter but because I want to be in charge of my own data.
I'm under no illusion that my public submissions can't/won't be scraped. My goal is simply to not give surveillance capitalists a mainline to my personal data nor allow myself to be turned into or used as a product to be mined and sold; I choose what I want to share. I put it out into the world, and whatever comes of it does (or doesn't).
The difference is that only what I choose to share can be mined and not everything.
Fair enough. I just wanted to clarify that you're aware.
We're speeding towards a point where only the obscenely rich resource hoarders and their corporations actually own anything.
The rest of us will just use anything, including what is still technically our own bodies, at their pleasure.
Can't say I'm quite gleeful about it tbh..
We're going back to the feudal system
That's a more concise way of putting it, yes 😁
....and then happily selling it back to you for a profit.
The better image is of the "Me" was drinking from the company's pee stream.
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This is how they get their revenge on piracy.
I don't understand what the issue here is? Are people upset that companies that own the AI will churn profit from the free data available on the Internet for them to be trained on?
If so, this is a hypocritical double standard. We use the Internet for the free information ourselves. We train ourselves but if a company does it for AI all of the sudden all that free information suddenly needs to be paid for because it's an incorporated institution?
Y'all need to figure out how free you want this content to be because there's no in-between.
... but if a company does it for AI ...
That's the line. Free for people. Not free for companies.
Right but that's the thing. You can't have it both ways. Either the information is free or it isn't.
If it is offered for free who queries that information should be irrelevant.
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