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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Looking for somewhere to discuss stuff that doesn't swing right or left and doesn't ban people for voicing an opinion.

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[-] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago

No - there is no such thing.

[-] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago

Everything is political, even the desire for an apolitical space.

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[-] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If by asking for a neutral place you are asking for somewhere that conservatives with hateful, childish, and dangerous beliefs that have no quantifiable basis in reality can go where they won't be treated like children..... shrugs

Not anywhere I will spend my time, conservatives can stay in their lame isolated pockets on the fediverse, the rest of the fediverse is for people who actually have functioning capacities for empathy and want to have adult conversations that adhere to reality.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Sounds like you're trying to make this an isolated pocket in the fediverse with that hatred you spread.

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[-] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

This post reminds me of an old adage I heard about driving. “Everyone that drives slower than me is an idiot, and everyone that drives faster is a maniac”

As others are saying, your middle ground is someone else’s extreme.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Well I was 2 day banned from Reddit saying I disagree with a ruling that was in favour with a transgender person and that I don't agree with the ideals of transgenders.

I got a 2 day ban for harassment and abuse, appealed it as it was not, and then got a permaban.

[-] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

"...that I don't agree with the ideals of transgenders."

Ah, there it is. Has the same vibes as, "I don't have a problem with black people, just black culture."

And what "ideals" are you taking issue with? You mean how trans folks want to be treated equally and fairly? Or maybe how trans folks want to raise awareness of violence across the world towards them? Or maybe how trans folks would like people to respect their pronouns, the exact same way people have been doing for centuries with nicknames and preferred names?

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I'm talking about being able to discuss things like that without being banned to a certain extent. Example: I disagree with trans people "ok". I want every trans person dead "not ok, ban"

[-] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You can discuss trans issues all over the place. Trans folks and allies in thousands of forums, websites, and physical locations like diversity centers at universities will happily provide you with reading materials to learn about trans issues and larger LGBT+ issues.

What people won't tolerate is bigotry and hate. You can disagree with trans folks about all kinds of things, just like anyone else in the world, but nobody is going to tolerate you questioning their identity or whether or not they should have the same rights as anybody else.

The fact that you keep treating trans folks and their views as a universal collective means one of three things:

  1. You disagree with the core issues that 99.99% of trans people agree on.
  2. You are using "transgenders" as some kind of dog whistle for your bigoted views and you're trying to play the victim in the classic, "I'm just asking questions, why is that banned?" kind of way.
  3. You're totally ignorant to trans and larger LGBT+ issues and you need to get informed.

If it's the first, then you're a bigot who doesn't think trans folks should be treated fairly and equally in society.

If it's the second, you're also a bigot and just trying to hide it.

If it's the third, you need to start reading and listening to LGBT+ content and learn about social issues from them and their lived experience. Go to a site like glaad.org and start reading there. You can also go to your local library and ask for the LGBT+ section, they will usually have materials and content there that will be informative. Also, any major college/university will have a diversity center or club, go there and ask them for good starter material for getting informed on LGBT+ issues.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks for the response.

I don't hate transgender people, what I do hate (I mean that word) is that we enable gender dysphoria and not help them get treatment for it. The way that we promote it, kinda bothers me as I see it as enabling behavior. I actually feel sorrow and pain for them, as they are the ones suffering the most with no idea what is going on inside their mind. I will note on the record, condoning violence, abuse or hate towards them. No human being who has not committed atrocities deserves that.

I do not dog whistle because I have no one to whistle to. I am not left wing and I am not right wing. I have no political label because I choose not to subscribe to tribal banter. Call me a modern Richard Stallman.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

You are literally the "enlightened centrist" stereotype, and you are talking nonsense about trans treatment. Despite the vast majority of research showing that gender affirming care has extremely high success rates and almost all trans folks not regretting transitioning, you apparently refuse to accept that.

Worse yet, you are trying to frame your bigotry as love and care, the same way homophobic Christians claim they "love and care about gay people."

There is no such thing as a "politically neutral" position. That would imply that there is some perfect center between different views, as if political viewpoints can be narrowed down to a 2-dimensional line with "right" & "left." All views have implications for society, and everybody falls into different varying categories and schools of thought, even if they aren't aware of it.

Claiming that you don't means either you are either very ignorant to political theory and philosophy, or you are deliberately being obtuse out of some false sense of moral/intellectual superiority.

Inform yourself, or if you're a bigot, just be open about it and stop pretending you're somehow magically above or outside of political/social biases.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I never said I'm enlightened, nor do I give myself that title. Why are people quick to label on here?

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

You're not listening to anything I'm saying, so I'm not really interested in continuing.

I've been extremely charitable to you despite your offensive commentary with other users and myself, I've made a half-dozen points in my other comments and you haven't engaged with any of them.

You're either supremely ignorant or you are a blatant transphobe trying to pretend you're confused and innocently curious.

I've given you resources to get informed, if you're a genuine person you'll follow them. If not, then your question of why you're constantly getting banned from inclusive communities has been answered.

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

And he doesn't consider gender affirming care as treatment!

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

transgender people get treatment for it all the time. For most of these, that treatment is called transitioning -- medically, socially, or both. Sure some people may realize that transitioning isn't correct for them and that is why there is so much gatekeeping. You can't change it anymore than you can make a gay person straight.

[-] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago

I don't agree with the ideals of transgenders.

What does that even mean?

From my perspective trans people just want people to stop weaponizing the government against them. It’s just the latest bs moral panic to keep people distracted on culture war nonsense instead of actually trying to change anything of substance for the better.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

It means that social media and now some public institutions enable transgenders to not seek mental health support for their gender dysphoria, and continue to act out. It's really sad and I want them to get help.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

Don’t really see how you have come to that conclusion. Lots of institutions in conservative states are making it harder for trans people to get treatment rather than the inverse. Honestly this reads more like concern trolling.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I don't live in the USA, but that's why I'd never vote for them.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Ok, so what institutions from your area do you feel block trans people from getting medical care?

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I never said that , I said gender dysphoria is being enabled instead of being encouraged to seek treatment.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

It sounds like you have misconceptions about what the best practice medical treatment is for trans people. Allowing people to present how they desire and be their true selves is what alleviates dysphoria.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I thought there was a mental health component in the preparation/decision process prior to transitioning.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago
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[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

There's a big difference between "I wouldn't choose that," and "They should be prevented by force from choosing that."

What you're looking for is a hate group. You can advocate not just judicial rulings limiting the freedom of minority groups, but for disposing of the minorities once and for all. If that's too extreme then you'll just need to tolerate them. Be better than those that didn't tolerate your hatred.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

No I am not. I never said I hate transgender people. you are not putting words in my mouth

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's been no rulings granting a transgender rights greater than another. It'd have been global news, the consequences of which would still be cascading through the judicial system.

So, when this transgender person was granted what may have been, after an arduous battle, equality in one situation, you disagreed.

What defines humans from other animals is complex communication and it's derivatives. I need not know the transgender person, be transgender myself, or even have a gay friend to feel basic human sympathy and empathy for them. That's the minimum human response: neutrality, equality. Anything less is animalistic hatred.

Edit: I've passed judgement on just this perspective you hold, not on you as a person. If I didn't believe you valuable I'd not have invested the time to explain why I expect more and believe you capable.

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[-] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

What makes a man turn neutral?

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago
[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Or was he just born with a heart full of neutrality?

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Chronic depression, bitterness, apathy

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[-] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

From your comments here, you're clearly not "politically neutral"

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[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

“I’m apolitical” == “I have political opinions that are too extremist even for political parties”

https://youtu.be/a-7XG4q0hhA?si=NLIsL15K0dscotzw

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

So because I don't agree with the ideals of transgenders or immigration, I'm extreme? What?

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Hmm.

What are the "ideals of transgenders?" The right to exist, free from persecution? If you're opposed to basic human dignity and rights which you'd be really pissed about it someone tried to take them away from you, then, yeah. That's a fairly extremist view.

Immigration... well, I can at least understand the thought process. But unless you're Native American yourself, then that's just fucking hypocritical. I wouldn't say "extreme," just more "asshole." Like, you got yours, and fuck everyone else trying to get what your immigrant great-great-grandparents did - it's a kind of dick attitude. If you are of indigenous descent, then sure: you get a free pass on that topic, from me, at least.

We should be able to discuss these topics, and I'll agree Lemmy can be pretty hostile when it shouldn't be. Lemmy's got its own Overtone Window and it can be rather fascist about enforcing it. However, if you approach a controversial topic at least attempting to come across as open to debate, and not just ranting about cross-dressing Mexican laborers taking your job - and really depending on the instance and forum you post into, you stand a fair chance of having a decent discussion.

You're not going to get much love going into a feminist community whining about affirmative action is actually just sexism in disguise, no matter what.

I'll just point out that many of is are aware of the paradox of tolerance: intolerance cannot itself be tolerated, or the bigots will eventually win. So if you're feeling as it you're getting slapped down about some topics, maybe consider it your position is one of tolerance or intolerance, and know that Lemmy's aware of the danger of allowing a Nazi to sit at the table with you.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I don't agree that we should normalize transgenders in society and should instead encourage them to seek help with their gender dysphoria. I am against immigration because it is artificially increasing the cost of living in my country and raising the unemployment rate.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

The cure for gender dysphoria is gender-affirming care, which includes treating human beings like human beings and allowing them a place in society.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Those are pretty common opinions. It's sad that some people cannot accept them.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You could always start this if you can't find it, could be interesting? c/middleground?

Edit: the center is going to mean different things to different people too.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

No, because it goes against some of the rules alot of the lemmies have of they take a post out of context. I don't agree immigration and I don't agree with transgenders. I don't hate them though. I'd still get banned for that

[-] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You repeating "I don't hate them" over and over while at the same time attacking trans people at their core sounds a lot like you're either in denial, or you're aware that your position is an unpopular one. Either way, it sounds like you need to do some self discovery.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I don't make comments for popularity, I make comments because I want to have a discussion.

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Yes , I am. The US right is so batshit that I’ve never found one I could even consider voting for. And most democrats in the US are to the right of my beliefs.

But I am pretty cenrterist in my policy beliefs.

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this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2024
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