this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2024
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[–] laxe@lemmy.world 181 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I want to follow updates from this project. They have a Twitter account but not Mastodon sigh

[–] infeeeee@lemm.ee 265 points 8 months ago (2 children)

RSS is not even enabled on the Newz page on the website.

[–] Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com 90 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I share the disappointment.

[–] infeeeee@lemm.ee 26 points 8 months ago

I found they have a newsletter, that sounds like an acceptable middle ground, not good, not terrible.

[–] mynamesnotrick@lemmy.zip 66 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Im glad to see this. Discord is a nightmare. It's the same as a Facebook only group to me.

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[–] unconfirmedsourcesDOTgov@lemmy.sdf.org 115 points 8 months ago (14 children)

The website makes it sound like all of the code being bespoke and "based on standards" is some kind of huge advantage but all I see is a Herculean undertaking with too few engineers and too many standards.

W3C lists 1138 separate standards currently, so if each of their three engineers implements one discrete standard every day, with no breaks/weekends/holidays, then having an alpha available that adheres to all 2024 web standards should be possible by 2026?

This is obviously also without testing but these guys are serious, senior engineers, so their code will be perfect on the first try, right?

Love the passion though, can't wait to see how this project plays out.

[–] weststadtgesicht@discuss.tchncs.de 55 points 8 months ago

W3C lists 1138 separate standards currently, so if each of their three engineers implements one discrete standard every day, with no breaks/weekends/holidays, then having an alpha available that adheres to all 2024 web standards should be possible by 2026?

Yes, that is exactly the plan: "We are targeting Summer 2026 for a first Alpha version"

[–] fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 43 points 8 months ago (4 children)

a Herculean undertaking with too few engineers and too many standards

Yeah, as a layperson this is my take. If mozilla is struggling to stay in the game then I just don't really see how an unfinanced indie team has a shot.

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[–] vantablack@lemmy.blahaj.zone 91 points 8 months ago (9 children)

you shouldn't use this browser the devs are transphobic sexist chuds

https://cyberpunk.lol/@vantablack/112717420300967771

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 23 points 8 months ago (1 children)

All this because they won't change a "he" into "they" ? Who gives a fuck about such rampant whiteknightism ? Why does a browser even need to know your gender ? In what context even is there a pronoun in the user interface ?

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[–] Logh@lemmy.ml 67 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Love the idea! Shopify as the highest tier sponsor? Not so much.

[–] antler@feddit.rocks 39 points 8 months ago

I mean if they're gonna give money without demanding anything I'm sure no complaints from the devs.

Shopify or an exec there might find some value in avoiding Google owning the web, could maybe bring goodwill for the company, or they could just be looking for a write off.

[–] Spedwell@lemmy.world 35 points 8 months ago (5 children)

I'm curious what issue you see with that? It seems like the project is only accepting unrestricted donations, but is there something suspicious about shopify that makes it's involvement concerning (I don't know much about them)?

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[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 62 points 8 months ago (8 children)

C++

If they're starting a browser from scratch, why would they not have chosen Rust? Seems very short sighted to not have learned from Firefox.

[–] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 69 points 8 months ago (1 children)

They used c++ initially since it was spawned from SerenityOS, which was designed to be a mashup of win2000 and unix.

now that Ladybird is its own project, it's not constrained to that goal, and they have said they will incorporate modern languages.

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[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 59 points 8 months ago (3 children)

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I've had more than a handful of people bitching at me that it's impossible to make a new, open web browser in this day.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 95 points 8 months ago (12 children)

I think it's less that it's "impossible" but rather that it's expensive.

Honestly we've in general shoved too much shit into the browser that's not strictly related to just browsing web sites.

And you "have to" support all the layers and layers and layers of added stuff, or you can't "compete".

But, at the same time, the goals of making a good-enough browser that mostly works and isn't completely enshittified and captured by corpo big tech interests is a very worthy project and 100% support what they're doing.

[–] sugartits@lemmy.world 40 points 8 months ago (2 children)

JavaScript was a mistake.

And it went downhill from there.

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 32 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

It was fine when it was contained to an actual web site instead of infecting desktop software too. To me, using JS for that purpose feels like using PHP to write a 3D video game.

[–] AbidanYre@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

using PHP to write a 3D video game.

Somewhere, someone just had a really bad idea.

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[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 32 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Eh, scriptable content was probably fine.

Techbros going 'holy shit, we should make EVERYTHING a website!' was the curse that doomed us.

[–] pentagrammar@programming.dev 30 points 8 months ago

Pushing for bloated web apps instead of having optimized and perfectly functional websites was what killed it for me.

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[–] jojo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 58 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Wasn't this the transphobic one?

[–] venoft@lemmy.world 55 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Funny how in the video the guy say that all other browsers are based on Google's code. But Firefox is also independent right?

[–] infeeeee@lemm.ee 108 points 8 months ago (2 children)

He says "powered by or funded by Google". Firefox depends on Google financially, most of the income of Mozilla comes from Google paying for being the default search engine.

They try to diversify their income (Firefox VPN, email alias service, etc.), but anything they try gets a huge backlash from the community, and still small compared to the the money from google.

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[–] viking@infosec.pub 24 points 8 months ago

Google is Mozilla's biggest source of income, and google developers have actively contributed code to the Firefox engine.

So you decide for yourself what level of independence you assign to it.

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[–] hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org 40 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Best of luck, I guess, but seems like a doomed project to me. Forking WebKit, Gecko, or even Servo would seem much more reasonable, and even that is a huge undertaking.

[–] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 23 points 8 months ago

Contributing directly to Firefox and reducing the dependence on Google should be three best bet

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[–] unlawfulbooger@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 8 months ago (4 children)

They’re making a new browser engine from scratch in an open way, absolutely amazing!

I do have several questions:

Why would they use BSD instead of GPL? If you care about open-source so much, why would you make it possible for a company to run away with your fancy new engine?

Why are they creating a new browser, when even firefox has to struggle to keep some semblance of market share? I get that not every project needs to aim to be “the biggest”, and that even a smaller project (in terms of users), can be fun. It’s just that writing a browser engine that can handle the modern web seems like an almost Sisyphean task; which makes me wonder what their motivation(?) is.

Why the FLOSS are they using closed-source proprietary discord as their main communication channel?

[–] Diabolo96@lemmy.dbzer0.com 41 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
  1. (BSD vs GPL) Andreas stated on twitter that he wanted to give devs total freedom to use his work because when he worked at Apple he felt frustrated he couldn't incorporate some code/software into his work because of GPL.
  2. (Why?) The aim is not to create a chrome competitor, but to make a good enough, truly free browser that isn't either chrome or funded by chrome. A browser made for and by its user's.
  3. (Discord) Because of gen-z.
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[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 33 points 8 months ago (2 children)

"Ladybird uses a brand new engine based on web standards, without borrowing any code from other browsers." has the same energy as

[–] blind3rdeye@lemm.ee 48 points 8 months ago

Not really. They aren't inventing new standards. They are implementing an engine that confirms to existing standards.

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[–] miridius@lemmy.world 31 points 8 months ago (44 children)

builds a new browser from scratch without borrowing existing code

still chooses to do it in C++

Epic fail

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[–] mynamesnotrick@lemmy.zip 25 points 8 months ago (2 children)
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[–] Toes@ani.social 21 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Kudos to them. Opera gave up on this dream being unable to accommodate all the nuances of web standards and accounting for out of conformance behaviours that many websites rely on the daily.

I reckon this browser will need to be at least on par with reasonably recent version of Firefox to see significant adoption.

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[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.world 20 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It would be nice if people read the post and the project before randomly making assumptions such as implying the project started from scratch yesterday or its run by some amateurs, this is a 4 year old project! It's founded by a former KHTML/Webkit developer for Apple!

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