this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2024
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Discussion of climate, how it is changing, activism around that, the politics, and the energy systems change we need in order to stabilize things.

As a starting point, the burning of fossil fuels, and to a lesser extent deforestation and release of methane are responsible for the warming in recent decades: Graph of temperature as observed with significant warming, and simulated without added greenhouse gases and other anthropogentic changes, which shows no significant warming

How much each change to the atmosphere has warmed the world: IPCC AR6 Figure 2 - Thee bar charts: first chart: how much each gas has warmed the world.  About 1C of total warming.  Second chart:  about 1.5C of total warming from well-mixed greenhouse gases, offset by 0.4C of cooling from aerosols and negligible influence from changes to solar output, volcanoes, and internal variability.  Third chart: about 1.25C of warming from CO2, 0.5C from methane, and a bunch more in small quantities from other gases.  About 0.5C of cooling with large error bars from SO2.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (2 children)

People in here are arguing about whether the government should be able to allow or disallow protests, i.e. "legal" or "illegal" protests.

I think Denmark has a good middle ground solution to this: Protests must be declared to the police ahead of time, so they know it is happening. Note that this is not an application or an ask for permission! You always have permission, you only have to make the police aware that you are protesting, so they can monitor it and ensure it follows law and order and doesn't turn violent.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

France works that way as well.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

On paper, but the city will still say "Friday's not good for us, how about next never?" Then the protest still happens but now the police can say the protest was announced too late and is violent while setting a corn field on fire with their tear gas. Which just happened this weekend.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

You always have permission*

* terms and conditions may apply

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Protestation IS democracy you fucking fascists.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Legal protests are. Illegal protestation is anarchy.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (1 children)

There is no such thing as an illegal protest. That is a concept made up by the people being protested against so that they can squash it. Protests are not supposed to be "convenient". They are not supposed to be comfortable or nice or pretty. They are supposed to force people to face the issue and band together to bring about real change.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That's not how it works. There is no country where protesting in the middle of the street without a permit is legal. There absolutely is something like illegal protesting, and what Just Stop Oil did was one example. Protests are about being seen, not causing inconvenience or even danger. You are not above the law just because you're protesting. Getting a permit and demonstrating outside the white house would have been the correct way to go about this.

The only people who banded together as a result of this protest were angry drivers banding together to remove the nuisance, and climate deniers who got radicalized by the rage, seeing Just Stop Oil protests.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (6 children)

It's one thing not to like illegal protests and a different one to equate them with anarchy. I understand that the term "anarchy" is often used as a synonym to "lawlessness" but in reality it is a movement that aims to eradicate societal hierarchies and replace them with horizontal organizational structures.

Also as I'm sure you know, law is not set in stone, it does change. Many things that are legal now, were illegal in the past. Sometimes in order to influence lawmakers we need to do illegal stuff, like non-violent disruptive protests.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If the protest isn't illegal, you aren't protesting, you are having a parade.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

Guys, I'm planning to cause a traffic jam, and you all are invited.

Oh wait, that's just normal traffic. Oh well, see y'all in jail.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Just Stop Oil are the people that were blocking traffic of normal everyday citizens.

Their sentences weren't lengthy enough in my opinion.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Am I a liberal? I expect protests to have permission beforehand just like they need in Sweden where I am from. They would have been charged there too.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Government sanctioned protest ain't no protest lol. If you're protesting the government action by asking their permission, might as well write them angry letter so they can throw it in the bin quicker.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

You can't justify breaking the law by claiming it is for the greater good, and blocking traffic is breaking the law. Whether you agree with it or not, this is how the world works. Same applies everywhere. If you have a problem with how a kindergarten works, you don't waltz in there and start blocking toddlers from entering. If you hate the food at a restaurant you don't spit in everyone elses plates. Not only is it illegal, it is detrimental to the message you're trying to spread. Find a different method to make your voice heard instead of being probably the most hated type of illegal protester in the world.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Actually I can justify breaking a law that I find unjust ❤️

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

most hated type of illegal protester in the world.

Fucking lol, real first world problems over here.

You're saying "it is what it is", but what you're actually saying is this is how it should be while others are arguing it should not.

Change the law and your argument evaporates.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That only works if a government wants to let you protest. And if people will even pay attention if you're protesting in a "citizen approved protesting location".

Kind of pointless to protest if no one pays attention to you.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago
  • For the convenience of our constituents, protest hours are 10:00-14:00 every second Thursday of the month.
  • Citizens may apply for a protest permit at their local post office.
  • In the event that potential protestors have different local post offices, each protestor must apply at all applicable post offices, indicating their post code of origin on the back of page 27 (BLUE INK ONLY).
  • Duplicate applications will be denied.
  • Please state clearly the reason for the proposed protest in the application in 25 words or less.
  • Applications take approximately 6-8 weeks per word to process. Successful applicants will be notified by post no later than 12 April of the following year.
  • Approved protests must be addressed to the brick wall behind the library and are confined to the space enclosed by the chain link fence.
  • If multiple approved protests occur on the same day, please form a queue, tallest to shortest. The group with the most amount of members in the top quartile will be granted the protest space for the day. Others will need to re-apply after a 60-day probationary period.
  • Chants will be kept to a conversational speaking volume.
  • For the safety of the public, no food or drink will be allowed.
  • Infractions of the rules as outlined in the application will result in the locking of the fence gate for a period of no less than 6 days.
  • Further punishments are determined at the sole discretion of the Peaceable Protest Committee. Sentences start at 5 years with no maximum. Appeals may be made after the sentence has been served.
[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

You're justifying breaking the law just because you think the cause is good.

I promise you that this kind of protest has the exact opposite effect. Look at the comment section of any youtube video showing protests like this, and you'll see what kind of radicalization this brings.

Get a permit, and protest in a safe way where you can still be seen, but not cause inconvenience or danger. If you think the government would deny you such a permit, then I congratulate you in making news headlines and successfully getting the entire population on your side.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I think if you're looking at a YouTube comment section for a rational point of view about anything, you've already lost the plot.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

The science largely disagrees with you; but as usual there are no clear cut answers on such complex topics.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (2 children)

On Armistice Day, EDL protesters marched towards the Cenotaph (without permission) and launched fireworks that were intended to hit people and did strike policemen in the face. Let's see if they get 5 years.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/11/world/far-right-protestors-disrupt-armistice-day-london/index.html

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Booo. This is a bad opinion. You should feel bad.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It is the opinion everyone except Just Stop Oil has.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Lol you're delusional if you think that most people would want others imprisoned for years for conspiring to cause traffic or even to cause it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Go to youtube. Search "just stop oil protests". Open up the comment section. Come back here and let me know how it went.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 8 months ago (2 children)

YouTube comments are almost always a cesspool of bad opinions so I'd rather not.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

This has to be the worst way to inform yourself you could possibly choose. Very telling.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think Just Stop Oil are largely a bunch of morons, but I still think a five year prison sentence for conspiracy to peacefully protest is abhorrent.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Peaceful protest should not be a cause for government punishment at all, this sentence is absolutely insane and should be revoked at the earliest convenience.

The new government should restore our right to protest policies without fear of imprisonment.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

There is nothing peaceful about blocking traffic.

It is first off illegal to protest on a busy road unless you've acquired a permit and have a way to redirect traffic. What they were doing were illegal protests.

Second, it doesn't matter what your message is. If you block traffic, you are the biggest cunt there is, and you are actively harming your own cause by showing the world what kind of people you are. If you've seen the videos, and read the comments, you know that 99% of the people are cheering when angry drivers pull the protesters by their hair out of the streets.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The entitlement of some people the moment they have a car. "Somebody took 20min of my time, they literally deserve 5 years in jail and to be assaulted in public.". You're sick, nothing your doing is important, sit in traffic and seeth. If you don't like it, take the train.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago (2 children)

“I can’t go to my office job or to get more mayo from asda because those wankers are protesting the end of the world!? Death penalty to them!”

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Do you think that their protest action should instead not inconvenience anyone so that it can continue to be ignored like all climate protests of that nature have been for decades?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It is not acceptable anywhere. This "in a democracy" bit is just taking away blaim from dictator who do this kind of stuff all the time.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

No, the point of the sentence isn't to take away blame. It is to compare them to dictatorships. I.E. Add more blame

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I still don't understand why JSO is bothering common folk with their protests, go block politicians - you know, the people who YOU want to make the treatise to stop the use of oil!

I agree with what they want (though it would've been nice if they had a plan how to slow down our oil use, but then again they're no experts on that), but I do think they're being dumb on how to achieve it. You don't see Union Strikers block off a highway to get what they want, they'll instead block off some plant where they work - now that makes sense! Go bother politicians.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

The problem with "they should have a plan" is that we have viable plans and nobody that's currently benefiting from oil will take any steps towards implementing them.

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