this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024
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As someone who grew up playing games like World of Warcraft and other AAA titles, I’ve seen how the gaming industry has evolved over the years—and not always for the better. One of the most disturbing trends is the rise of gacha games, which are, at their core, thinly veiled gambling systems targeting younger players. And I think it’s time we have a serious conversation about why this form of gaming needs to be heavily restricted, if not outright regulated.

Gacha systems prey on players by offering a sense of excitement and reward, but at the cost of their mental health and well-being. These games are often marketed as "free to play," making them seem harmless, but in reality, they trap players in cycles of spending and gambling. You don’t just buy a game and enjoy its content—you gamble for the chance to get characters, equipment, and other in-game items. It’s all based on luck, with very low odds of getting what you want, which leads players to keep spending in hopes of hitting that jackpot.

This setup is psychologically damaging, especially for younger players who are still developing their sense of self-control. Gacha games condition them to associate spending money with emotional highs, which is the exact same mechanism that fuels gambling addiction. You might think it's just harmless fun, but it’s incredibly easy to fall into a pattern where you're constantly chasing that next dopamine hit, just like a gambler sitting at a slot machine. Over time, this not only leads to financial strain but also deeply ingrained mental health issues, such as anxiety, depression, and a lack of self-control when it comes to spending money.

Countries like Belgium and the Netherlands have already banned loot boxes and gacha systems, recognizing the dangers they pose, especially to younger players. The fact that these systems are still largely unregulated in many other regions, including the U.S., shows just how out of control things have gotten. The gaming industry has shifted from offering well-rounded experiences to creating systems designed to exploit players’ psychological vulnerabilities.

We need to follow Europe’s lead in placing heavy restrictions on gacha and loot boxes. It’s one thing to pay for a game and know what you're getting; it's another to be lured into a never-ending cycle of gambling for content that should be available as part of the game. Gaming should be about fun, skill, and exploration, not exploiting people’s mental health for profit.

It's time for developers and legislators to take responsibility and start protecting the players, especially the younger ones, from these predatory practices.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You're like 5 years late on this realization. Unfortunately not much is changing.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It seems the EU is moving on this issue with their usual tectonic speed.

https://dailywrap.ca/video-game-giants-face-eu-scrutiny-over-exploitative-microtransactions,7070300439647873a

Let's hope they also hit with their usual tectonic force.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Compared to the US, the EU is lightning fast. California probably beats them sometimes, though.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 6 months ago (4 children)

Without being a gacha game, World of WarCraft is guilty of a lot of the same stuff. You probably know people who flunked out of college due to the addiction, or have heard of parents who neglected their child over that game. It preys on a lot of the same impulses that Diablo and Diablo II seemed to have found by accident, before they were monetized by subscription fees and then microtransactions. And you can see a lot of the same in games like Destiny.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Haven't played WoW in awhile, but do they now have 'you can spend unlimited money' mechanics? Previously it was just stuff like mounts and character transfers and stuff. I know you can also sell tokens for gold, but I thought gold kind of becomes irrelevant at some point. The best gear is bind on drop right? Theoretically I guess you can pay gold for boost runs, which probably counts as an endless money sink.

I kind of have a mental separation in my head between games with unlimited money sinks (like games with energy mechanics) where you can spend and spend and spend and it never stops, vs games that have a finite of things to buy.

It can still be way over priced, but there's a maximum amount of money you can throw at the game. Even Diablo 4, with a relatively huge and highly priced number of cosmetic items has effectively a maximum price (though every new cosmetic increases that price). Vs Diablo Immortal allowing you to spend 10s of thousands of dollars and still need to keep spending. I think unlimited money mechanics should be outlawed or at least fully classified as gambling and regulated accordingly.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I think keeping you addicted so as to continue to paying a monthly subscription is bad on its own, and I don't think it needs to be qualified by how much you spend overall if they're still knowingly capitalizing on that addiction in an unregulated environment. But also, while I don't know the answer to your question for a fact, I would imagine that they do have ways to spend unlimited money in that game if you're so inclined.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (3 children)

I agree with you, to an extent. I would say it's a lot more complicated than that with World of Warcraft, which is an MMO, and does not revolve on gambling except in the aspect of random number generated loot. This is probably the majority of looter shooters out there today as well and a large number of other games. Pure chance in just the loot and rewards. Personally, World of Warcraft did not affect me adversely, because I have very strong self-control, and was able to develop very strict limitations for my own personal life which was important in college.

But I think there's something you're definitely missing. Sure, while World of Warcraft can be blamed by some people flunking out of college or high school due to its addictive and fun nature, Have you considered the fact that the world we live in is simply so boring that they don't want to pay attention to those things? Over a 20-year time span since I have graduated, high school and college has not evolved. It's the same boring ass mess that it was when I went to school. Unnecessary classes, study only for the test and never use that information ever again, very rarely are their projects and when there are, they are silly group projects in which two out of the four members of your group are lazy and don't want to do a damn thing. You also are faced with constant demoralizing facts thrown at you from the media and the outside world that your college degree won't help you get a job, you won't see any student loan relief, the wealthy elites are in positions of power and rising faster in companies than you ever will be... Reality is so disappointing. So I can understand why these people have trouble paying attention in school and want to turn to stuff like World of Warcraft, theme park MMO that has so much fun and enjoyment in it

But when we're talking about a gacha, This feels so much more insidious. Every aspect of the entire game, not just the loot, is gambling, and you're gambling with real money. Not your time. In World of Warcraft you don't get a drop, oh well, try again next time. You still paid $15 for that entire month, so you can try as many times as you want on as many characters as you want. But when you pay 50 bucks for Genshin impact and you get nothing, you know what that money goes towards? Absolutely nothing. You lose that money forever. Now you are mentally afflicted with that, and you're already considering whether or not you should pay another 50 bucks to try and get it again with the gamblers fallacy in the back of your mind that if I pay another $50 I'm already $50 in, so I have a much better chance of getting it now. It's sickening

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago

I agree with you, to an extent. I would say it's a lot more complicated than that with World of Warcraft, which is an MMO, and does not revolve on gambling except in the aspect of random number generated loot.

The way that the drops are is literally the same approach as a slot machine but with more steps to take up your time with boring shit and require more of your life to be dedicated to it so that there is less risk of you getting distracted by things like hobbies or games with finite stories with quality writing. A one-armed bandit might snag a handful of whales that spend all of their time feeding the machine. The Wrath of the Lich Bandit gets a much larger percentage of its users in front of it for a larger amount of their time, increasing the ratio of addicts/whales caught. Add in expansions, real money auctions, etc and you've got something much more fucked up than anything on a Vegas casino floor.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago (6 children)

This reads like "the only moral Skinner box is my Skinner box."

Also sounds like you haven't played in a while. The addition of real currency to gold trading creates an even more direct pipeline from one's wallet to in-game gear dice rolls. Guilds selling raid gear is even more common now, and with crafting orders, a whale can spend to reroll secondary stats on crafted gear.

With the way Warcraft is throwing currencies at players now, it's clear Blizzard has taken more than a few cues from how gacha and other live-service outfits are doing things these days. Plenty of opportunities for ruinous, addictive behavior.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

You could throw most of this same argument back at gachas. They're just gambling because the world sucks, or something...

No, my understanding is that the reason people get addicted to this stuff is that we evolved to gather finite resources when they're available, even if it's rare, so we're prey to systems like this that can control that rarity. WoW absolutely did this, just without putting a price on each interaction.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Assuming "we" is the US, write your state and federal representatives, not Lemmy. People might agree with you, but you're preaching to the choir.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago

How about both? Writing your elected reps is definitely smart, but will be much more effective if there are numerous people calling for the same. I appreciate OP sharing their views, and catloaf sharing a specific action step all of us can do it we are concerned about this matter.

I worked for a few years as a gambling addiction counselor, and these types of games definitely prime people for addiction to gambling. Also, it's worth noting that the demographic with the highest rates of gambling addiction are young men, aged 18-24.

Anyone that's been to a casino can attest that major video game companies also make slot machines. The industry are aware of what they're doing.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 6 months ago (10 children)

I was a young idiot making minimum wage and I spent 500 dollars in a gacha game over a three month period. It's been years and I still wake up at night, remember this and feel the strongest remorse.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I’m sorry, it really sounds like it turned into an addiction for you. Very happy that you got away from it. Be careful with addictive substances or activities in your life, some people have a predisposition for it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Thank you! I very much have that predisposition. I've noticed that I have addictive behavior towards sugar and caffeine as well (I'm fine as long as I don't have any, but if I have some I'll continue to crave more at shorter and shorter intervals until I go to sleep and it resets), and recently celebrated my third month nicotine free after about four years total smoking and then vaping.

Addictive proclivities are a personal defect normally. But when you exist in a context where there are people whose job it is to get you hooked on things, they become a handicap.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I spent $800 on Fallout: Shelter

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago

Fuck, my condolences.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (8 children)

As someone who plays a gacha game (Genshin Impact) I 100% agree. This shit should be kept the hell out of the hands of kids until their brain has at least matured to the point we'd let them go actual gambling.

That said, there's certainly a spread of abusiveness in the games: some are very reasonable and could be played with no money or very little money because they're generous with premium currencies and others are doing a sexy little dance while they steal your wallet.

Regulation around how much you can spend in a month would be reasonable, no kids would be reasonable, requiring clear and published probabilities and what those probabilities mean in terms of how many pulls would be a good start.

I can assure you most gacha players cannot tell you how many pulls you'd need to make for a 0.5% chance pull.

Also maybe outline estimated costs for winning wouldn't be awful, but that's maybe not feasible since there's a lot of variability?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Knowing the odds doesn’t stop children from developing a gambling habit.

We were on the way to banning gambling a couple decades ago, it was illegal online and it was hard for new casinos to open up. Sports betting was illegal.

Now we’ve got FanDuel and gacha and loot boxes and crypto casinos and shitcoin shoveling influencers all this awful shit. And if you look around, the biggest shitbag bullies are the ones who are promoting it, because they know they’ll get their bag and their fans will never turn on them.

You know, because they might win next time.

These people are child predators, just not (always) the sexual kind. Fucking ban it all.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago

Knowing the odds doesn’t stop children from developing a gambling habit.

Agreed, and this is why I'm firmly on the no-kids side of things.

If you can't go to a casino until you're 21, why exactly should you be able to gamble online (in any form!) until then either?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Gacha can be moderately acceptable if the math is fully documented and enforced. If you know it will take <= 180 pulls to get Raiden Shogun, and each pull costs $3, then it's just a $540 DLC with extra steps and the tease thst it might be cheaper if you're lucky or have banked pulls.

But transparency is key-- the developer should be expected to offer a calculator or lookup table for any RNG item, especially if it's some combination of multiple drop mechanics or hsrd-to-convert currencies that dissuades back-of-the-envelope estimates.

Even in Vegas, the slot machines are required to disclose their payout rate.

There's also significant differences in the gacha appeal factor. If there are no leaderboards or PvP, and the game mechanics can be completed with F2P only, that is inherently less pressure to spend then on a game where you regularly get your ass handed to you by a someone with a Black Amex and all seven-star limited banner units.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (5 children)

Agreed on P2P gacha games. Those are just gross as fuck, since as you said, they're explicitly pay-to-win.

Genshin does, for the most part, provide very clear percentages and how the math works out, so you can actually do that but they're certainly a rarity. I will say, though, that while they do provide that information it's also in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a 'beware of the leopard' sign.

You can find it if you know where it is, but your average user isn't going to know the magic things you should click on to get from the wish screen to the page on the website where they outline specific odds and pull rates, which eh, not a fan of making that so obscure.

Also: not a fan of the sell you a currency you have to convert to another currency to convert to a 3rd thing that then can be used for gambling thing. There shouldn't be more than one level of obscuring between your money and the final item you need - Genshin goes from Crystals to Primogems to Wishes, and that's almost entirely to be sure to confuse people how much that wish actually cost, since you've got a lot of math to do to get back to what you orginally paid for the Crystals.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Government should set up a site where companies using loot boxes have to open a tax box to know what tax they'll pay that month, to keep things exiting, with the option to buy more tax boxes for a few million per box.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

At least make all gacha games R18, no kids should be exposed to this stuff.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I swear the post sounds like an LLM so much, but if it isn't, congrats to OP on the writing skills

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 6 months ago (5 children)

We had to convince my brother in law (13yo) to not spend his birthday money of £85 on Genshin impact skins. Kids are fucked by advertising man

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

I'm no stranger to people paying for skins and all, but when i first heard that kids want vbucks as a Christmas gift my stomach kinda turned.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago (4 children)

It’s a small measure, but I’d really like to see a law where gacha games need to publicly advertise their odds and allow independent verification.

The biggest effect it would have is, the odds would need to be static. Many gacha systems have been accused of putting a hand on the wheel, assuring someone “so close to their needed item” must keep going through a series of failures.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This is already a thing in most gacha games due to laws that already exist in certain countries.

The way the gacha works is very public knowledge for every popular one, and can be verified by the players.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago (2 children)

World of Warcraft and Diablo are gacha. Every time you play, you are "pulling" and hoping for a good drop(item). What modern gacha games did, is take that gameplay/psychological feature and directly monetize it(instead of indirectly monetizing it through a subscription/1 time payment).

But both are gambling. I am ok with having age restrictions but we need to be honest with ourselves. And what is "fun" is whatever makes neurons activate. Gambling(ie rpg elements) has always been a core mechanic for many games.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

But both are gambling.

Nah, they are not comparable in a meaningful way. Sure, at a high level, you can apply aspects of "gambling" to both examples. But the biggest and most important point is the ability to spend actual money for additional changes at "winning".

People are against gaming because of some deep-seating fear of Random Number Generation by itself. They are against it because of how easy it is to lose money.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

It depends on if you value your time or not. That's what you gamble in WoW. If you don't get your drop at the end of the raid, you lost time. When a new expansion obsoletes your gear, you lost time.

Oh wait, you literally have to buy play-time to even do the raid in the first place and roll the wheel. Not to mention the (sub)time it takes to level up and gear up.

Yeah. Just because you are not pulling out your wallet at every kill doesn't mean you aren't gambling and losing, both time and money.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

In that case aren't most games gambling? You fight a boss and you die. You have failed and you lose progress of the boss fight which means the failed fight was a waste of time. Gambling.

My actual point is that despite us having a relatively good intuition on what is gambling, defining what gambling really is is pretty hard. Be too broad and you will end up marking non-gambling things as gambling, be too narrow and you get things like lootboxes that definitely feel like gambling but don't actually fit most legal definitions of gambling.

Your definition is so broad it encompasses almost all games and as such is useless when you want to use it to regulate gambling on games.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

Also it should be required to display prices in local currency. I spent 2.99usd on that fox card game. Ended up costing me 5 bucks canadian

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago

Look at the mobile game industry if cancer could manifest as a software this industry is spreading it like oil and gas.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I'm quite sad that most games for smartphones are either gatcha-hell, or add-ridden messes.

What good options are there? I tried OpenTTD for Android, but the UI is really not optimized for such a small screen.

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