this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 105 points 5 months ago (4 children)

This just begs the question

Why do we allow a major embargo of an entire island nation and allow an entire people to live without the proper necessities and resources in order to maintain their nation?

[–] [email protected] 123 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

President Obama began to ease the embargo restrictions in 2016, allowing for travel and investments. It was Trump, in 2017, who reinstated the embargo in full. Probably just because Obama relaxed it.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Then Biden got into office and uh,

[–] [email protected] 45 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Hey, too close to election for me to not fervently call out misinformation bullshit like this:

It was The Trump Administration who signed the National Security Presidential Memorandum (NSPM-5)

National Security Presidential Memorandum (NSPM-5): Signed on June 16, 2017, this policy outlined the Trump administration's approach to rolling back aspects of the Cuba normalization process. It directed restrictions on travel, business dealings with Cuban entities controlled by the military, and restrictions on educational and cultural exchanges.

It was Donald Trump who directed the creation of the Cuba Restricted List

The U.S. Department of State, following Trump's directives, created a list of Cuban entities with which direct financial transactions are prohibited. This list largely includes businesses owned by or affiliated with the Cuban military, intelligence, or security services. It was first issued in November 2017 and has been updated several times since.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Biden or his administration. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 44 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I was more pointing out how Biden has done little or nothing to REVERSE Trump's regressions despite having the power to.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Oh good, let's blame the guy who didn't do something instead of the guy who did.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Biden or his administration. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 5 months ago

It's not about saying Biden is to blame. Trump 100% should have blame.

But the fact that someone else STARTED (or in this case re-started) a bad thing doesn't mean the next person in power gets a free pass for not working to stop it again.

So it's perfectly fair to call out Biden for not stopping the bad thing that Trump (re)started.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago

Dude. Breathe. We're all on the same side, I'm certain.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Exactly! Not doing something to stop a problem is not the same as causing it. Also, if you don't vote for Harris you're voting for Trump.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think he's implying Biden didn't roll back Trump's policy or try to begin normalization again.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Oh good, let's blame the guy who didn't do something instead of the guy who did.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Biden or his administration. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No of course not why would the most powerful man on earth and former VP to the president who made that progress with Cuba have any responsibility to change anything.

He had the power and has not done it. It IS as bad as Trump's actions to uphold them.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Biden isn't running anymore. You don't have to defend his unwillingness to roll back Trump policy anymore.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

There's a shitton of Trump's policies that need reversing.

But, as always, it takes more time, effort and resources to build or fix something than it does to break them.

Biden's admin has been working through the heap, but some things take priority over others.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

https://press.un.org/en/2023/ga12552.doc.htm

UN discussion on how damaging the embargo is

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago (2 children)

The US has an embargo, but Mexico and Canada don't. Cuba can and does buy goods from them. Cuba's real problem is paying for them. The US does not embargo food or medicine goods to Cuba, yet the country has problems feeding their people. Poor economic management of a communist country with no real resources.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Cuba can't pay because Cuba can't conduct normal finances with the rest of world because of the US embargo

It's like having having someone handcuff you, cuff you feet and pin you to the ground and rest their knee on your neck and ask you why you can't get up on your own.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

They can certainly conduct commerce with the rest of the world.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (5 children)

You are technically correct .... but there are several convoluted rules and regulations controlled and mandated by the US that it makes it either very difficult or impossible for most countries to do business or trade with Cuba.

Cuba can trade with anyone they want .... it's just purposely made so difficult that very few do so and the ones who do provide very little in exchange.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/19/facebook-posts/cuba-can-trade-other-countries-heres-some-context/

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (13 children)

The question is, with what currency? The Cuban dollar is not really worth anything outside Cuba, so they can only rely on exports to fund currency needed to buy imports.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (3 children)

The US has an embargo, but Mexico and Canada don't.

Technically, but the US has sanctioned companies in other countries who do business in Cuba scaring off a ton of possible choices. The companies have to choose between the richest company on earth and Cuba. Not much of a choice.

Plus IIRC boats that go to Cuba can't go to the US after for some period of time. Which considering location makes it hugely inconvenient for shipping companies.

Plus since the US and US based companies control a huge portion of the world's financial systems Cuba is locked out of all of them

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Longest embargo in US history!

... probably done as a deterrent against other near by nations looking to station nuclear arms in close proximity.

Stops places like Mexico, Canada, or Panama from making an offer to China, Iran, North Korea, or Russia to station Nuclear their silos/launch bases for them.

Canada is probably still thinking about it though.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (3 children)

You can control a nation's ability to import and receive nuclear weapons, especially if you are trying to control the supply of arms ...... it doesn't mean you get to starve and decimate an entire country just because you don't like their politics or they don't happen to support you.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

doesn't mean you get to starve and decimate an entire country just because you don't like their politics

I think the history of the US and every other imperial power ever would disagree.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

So, while I would agree, politics has unfortunate side effects, both internal cuban politics, and external cuban politics, as the cuban exiles really, REALLY want to get all their shit back.

We shouldn't be in it, but our Cubans hijacked a large part of our politics by living in such a strong swing state, so we're at the mercy of them as much as anyone.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Canada is probably still thinking about it though.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Because the people there didn’t allow US capitalists to exploit them and their resources; because the people started to organize themselves and their resources around public interest; because they were voting in leaders who didn’t allow US elite to exploit them.

And so they must be punished.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The article doesn't specify, but it appears to be a long term fuel issue. They have been trying to cut back for a while now, including with blackouts for various areas, but they finally ran out and/or the demand while it was on just crashed the system.

Restarting an entire grid is not easy either, it usually takes many hours even if you have fuel available.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

More like decrepit oil-fired power plants, many decades old. Cuba is also having economic problems.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (8 children)

I don't get it. How does the failure of one single power plant cripple an island that large?

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago

Here's Practical Engineering explaining how it almost happened in Texas. he also goes into why starting from a black start is so hard

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Article doesn't say, but one plausible scenario:

A big power plant goes down and other plants have to pick up the load. Load exceeds capacity of remaining plants and they shut down (or breakers blow, etc). Repeat.

Power plants also need energy to start up (black start), and if there's no grid energy to power those ancillary systems, or if the power plant doesn't have on-site auxiliary generators to provide black start capability, they're down until they can get power again from elsewhere.

Base load plants (coal, nuclear) don't throttle up and down quickly for changing loads. For quick response, we use peaker plants which are typically natural gas powered turbines and can respond quicker (grid batteries are, thankfully, replacing these in some cases).

That's grossly over-simplified but it's more or less the gist of it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (8 children)

Power plants also need energy to start up (black start), and if there’s no grid energy to power those ancillary systems, or if the power plant doesn’t have on-site auxiliary generators to provide black start capability, they’re down until they can get power again from elsewhere.

This is huge, we have massive drills to make sure we can do this, and idle black start plants for just this purpose alongside almost an entire secondary grid for bootstrapping.

Electricity is expensive and hard as hell.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

so it's exactly like coal generators in Satisfactory

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Cascade failure maybe? Sudden loss causes other plants to try to pick up slack, overloading one of them, which puts even more pressure on the rest until they all fail?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I'm amazed they don't have redundancies in case of things like this. I guess not.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'd be more amazed if they where able to build that capacity behind an American blockade

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

It's Cuba. They've been hamstringed by the US embargo for a very long time. I'm amazed they're doing as well as they are. My understanding is that, with the exception of medicine and food, basically anything that touches American soil or American hands (literally or metaphorically) is illegal to officially export to Cuba regardless of the country it's being sold in.

So for an example, any steel made in the US, manufactured for US companies, made using iron from the US, etc, may not be officially sold to Cuba. That doesn't mean a Mexican company can't buy the steel and resell it to Cuba; but it means Cuba potentially has to pay multiple tariffs and pay to have it bounced from the US to at least one other country before it can go to Cuba.

Furthermore, my understanding is that foreign companies with a US presence don't tend to do business with Cuba because the US will put pressure on them to stop doing business with Cuba.

The embargo needs to end. Cuba could have been the US' strange, goofy cousin with weird ideas about government and economy; because it seems like the Cuban government is making a legitimate attempt at a socialistic system. However, US capitalists ruined everything (iirc the embargo didn't start with the cold war, it started because Cuba overthrew the banana republic previously ruling them, which pissed off fruit companies. Said companies then cried to Uncle Sam because their slaves revolted and the US said, "you gotta pay them back for all the fruit they lost, plus interest".)

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Electric grids are really tough to get back online from what I've read. Rolling blackouts help keep things online, but if the whole thing goes down at once it's tricky to get all the generators on the same timing for their 60/50 Hz transmission lines.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

For a historical analogue check out what happened in Italy on 28. September 2003. One international line in Switzerland sparked to a tree, and got shut down, that caused a cascade where the other lines to France were overheating and getting shut down a few minutes after, and Italy didn't manage to shed enough load in time to keep up their frequency internally, then everything shut off when it drooped low enough. Took them 18 hours afterwards to get the whole grid back online.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

If demand exceeds supply, the whole grid will fail as the voltage/frequency drop trips all sorts of safety systems meant to protect the grid and the devices connected to them. Normally the supply and demand are continually balanced to avoid this.

If a major plant goes offline and you don't shut down equal demand at the same time (usually by disabling entire neighborhoods) then this is the result.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago
[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

average lemmy user: "but communism is still waaaay better than capitalism"

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What an absolutely braindead comment.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

They should trade China all the cigars and rum they want for enough cheap solar and batteries to power the island.

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