this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2024
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[–] [email protected] 65 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

Misner said it was a difficult decision to vote for Trump. He said the point of the Abandon Harris campaign was to punish the Democrats for supporting Israel during its war in Gaza, which the campaigners view as a genocide, and he hopes the Trump campaign will be more willing to negotiate with group leaders.

Vindication feels awful here, honestly.

“I think the biggest problem is that your messaging to Arab Americans can’t just be ‘Trump’s a fascist, Trump is Hitler. Big, scary orange man, vote for me.’ Part of being a part of the American political system is being able to separate yourself from your opponent and lay out a better vision. And she did not do that,” Abdelrahman said.

  1. Negative messaging works, as much as people like to pretend it doesn't.

  2. If you saw a literal fascist openly declaring fascist things, and your response to the milquetoast opposition is "Well, you're not seperated enough, stylistically", you're not much more than a fascist enabler.

  3. In what fucking way is "Not fascism" not a better vision than "Literal fucking fascism"?

“She could have at least called for a ceasefire,” Khan said. (Harris repeatedly called for a ceasefire during her campaign, including during her Democratic convention speech.)

Ah, it's just like being on Lemmy!

“Even in politics, humanity should be the first and the foremost thing to to be respected, to be valued, right? And [the] Democratic Party clearly, clearly, for an entire year showed us they do not care about human life,” Khan said. “They do not care about their constituents, how they feel about the massacre.”

Ah, yes, humanity is the first and foremost thing to be respected, which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote. Peak humanity.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago

which is why LGBT Americans have been served to fascists on a silver platter as a protest vote.

If you are queer and have any way out, get out. If you can't get out, scrub your internet history as clean as you possibly can because they will hunt you down.

God I hate it but there's going to have to be a new underground railroad for pregnant women and queer and brown people...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Gay people aren't more important than Muslims

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Gay people aren’t more important than Muslims

It would seem that they are considerably less important than virtue signaling to Muslims for many voters, yes.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

Ah so we all need to respect your views, but when it comes to not wanting to support genocide label it virtue signaling.

Liberals are so pathetic. I'm sure that condescending everyone you meet will win you tons of votes.

You all spend so much time chasing fascist voters and then act so surprised when the fascists are suddenly legitimized by society.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago (8 children)

What I am not surprised about, at all, is that all the "don't vote for her" people like yourself (apparently) are now claiming they are not in any way responsible for a fascist getting elected. It's everyone else's fault, but the person who literally said to not vote for the only other option than the fascist shares none of the blame.

And if that isn't you, you're defending people who share the blame. Which, I would say, falls into the camp of 'pathetic' as well.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Ah so we all need to respect your views, but when it comes to not wanting to support genocide label it virtue signaling.

Not sure what else you'd call selling out queer folk to feel good about yourself.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The DNC did that by running shit candidates back to back to back who either couldn't defeat a blatant, moronic fascist or just barely beat him by the skin of their teeth with the aid of a massive pandemic and economic turmoil fresh in everyone's mind. They sold out the whole country in favor of maintaining the status quo for their corporate masters and major donors.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

I will always condescend to bigots and fascists, and I’m proud to do it. If we don’t “chase” them, they’ll win permanently.

I guess it’s easier to just roll over and pretend the biggest fascist of all is acceptable. That way you don’t have to admit that you made a bad decision, and you can spend the next four years savoring your moral victory and calling people “pathetic”. You’re awesome.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Good news! To the Republicans neither are important and they would gladly see both groups disappear, so a vote for them and a refusal to vote for the Democrats was just support for both Muslim AND LGBTQ+ genocide! Good job everyone!

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Good news, genocide is genocide. You're just upset it might effect you now.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (10 children)

But queer people domestically are apparently far less important than Muslims in another country.

But I look forward to the people who told me "there won't be a genocide of queer people" telling me that the genocide isn't happening.

They just shut put their hands over their eyes whenever I showed them this after all...

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Sorry your support of genocide might now effect you

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

It’s like the literal progression of the poem and people still act surprised.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 4 months ago (4 children)

“He at least, at least came and spoke to the Muslims. He heard them and said, ‘OK, I will finish. I will end the war in Middle East,’ even if he didn’t say, you know, a genocide, but he said he will bring peace,” she said. “And that’s what the people wanted to hear, and that’s why he got the votes.”

He's going to "end it" by rushing it to its conclusion you morons! Holy fuck! 🤦‍♂️

[–] [email protected] 51 points 4 months ago (2 children)

It kind of proves the point that the DNC should have listened to them instead of plugging their ears and walking past them.

Harris didn't even have to have any plans, but listening was too hard for them. Will they learn from it or blame others? Let's find out.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago

It rather proves how flawed the concept of democracy is. People can't be expected to make rational decisions. This is why candidates fill their campaigns with lies and cheap rhetoric. Because morons will believe it. Sure we'll all complain later about how "politicians always lie" but the people wanted that anyway.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Trump didn't listen to them, and he won their vote. So if anything, this proves they wanted someone more like Trump.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (10 children)

Trump did though. Not advocating for his policies but his campaign interacted with Arab voters a lot more than Harris's.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

at the end of the day Democrats had their check writers to think about which is why they intentionally lost

Harris consistently had wins handed to her on gold platters and Harris repeatedly stuck her nose up at the platters

Democrats are not the party of the people or progressives but just Republicans with different coat colors on getting checks from the same places

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (10 children)

You have two choices for ship's captain.

One wants to paint the interior a color you hate. Like, it's the worst color you've ever seen. And she won't even listen to you about changing it.

The other wants to run the ship into an iceberg.

Hope you brought a life jacket.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago (8 children)

That analogy is very flawed and, within the context of Arab voters, crosses the realm of "insensitive" and well into "fucking stupid" territory.

I'll start with the "very flawed" part. Harris didn't promise to "paint the interior an ugly color", she promised to sit and watch while the ship slowly sunk and maybe open a few small holes. She promised stagnation and yet more rightward shifting to people who are being driven closer and closer to poverty every day. Sure, she was better than Trump, but she still had massive policy and attitude flaws that can't be called "painting the interior a bad color".

Now for the "fucking stupid" part: Harris was promising to do exactly the same things Biden was doing in Palestine. She promised that and still expected—or thought she could do without—Arab votes. Votes from people who were losing loved ones and attending funerals because of the policy she completely unapologetically promised to continue. Comparing killing her voters' families to "painting the ship a bad color" is, as I said above, fucking stupid.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You forgot to mention that the current captain is shooting one POC person a day while it heads into an iceberg.

And the first choice for new captain is the current first mate who by all accounts will not change course, and keeps promising to uphold the shoot a POC person a day policy. And you're acting surprised they're not getting popular support from that group.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

BOOoooOoOoTh SiIIiiiIidEs!!!1

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

I don't really see how the Uncommitted movement could have done anything differently. They had pretty simple demands: let a Palestinian speak at the DNC, meet with families of Palestinians, meet with our leadership. The Harris campaign ignored all of those requests, so in the end, they declined to endorse her, but still urged their supporters not to vote Trump or third-party.

Endorsing her just wasn't an option, given that she did nothing to meet them halfway. If your spouse is abusive, and you say, "If you ever treat me like that again, I will leave you," then you have to leave them if their behavior doesn't change. Otherwise, you are just inviting more abuse. If you tell a politician, "These are the minimum actions you must take to earn our endorsement," and they ignore you, you can't endorse them anyway. Otherwise, you're announcing your demands carry no weight.

The Abandon Harris (previously Abandon Biden) movement was more hard-line, and the Democrats were clearly too centrist and hawkish to meet their demands for an immediate arms embargo But the Uncommitted movement offered reasonable steps that the Harris campaign could have taken to win over Arab Americans, and she flat out ignored them. She is clearly to blame for not taking that offramp.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (28 children)

No. And fuck you for taking that position. That Uncommitted position doesn't 'punish' Harris, it simply ensures that a demagogue would be elected. AND just coincidentally, the early actions of that demagogue signals that Palestine simply won't exist in any significant fashion in a few years.

The direct result of your holier-than-thou' position is that Palestine gets fucked 10 times harder. Good job asshole.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Well, A) I'm describing the position Uncommitted was in, not giving my own. B) Who the hell are you quoting when you say, "punish?" That word doesn't appear in my comment, and I definitely didn't say that the Uncommitted leaders were trying to punish anyone, so what the fuck are you talking about? Are you actually arguing with me, or someone you made up in your head? C) Your entitled, sneering attitude is indicative of why Harris lost; telling Palestinian that Harris won't oppose the genocide, but vote for her anyway or else; telling teamsters she didn't need them to win; it turns out that was a losing strategy, huh?

By the way, I actually voted for Harris, despite her floundering, directionless campaign, but since I'm not a complete idiot, I want to understand people who didn't. Blaming other people for Harris's loss might feel nice, but internet temper tantrums don't win elections.

Anyway, I could also call you an asshole and tell you to get fucked, but honestly, I'd rather you work on your reading comprehension. You don't seem to have understood (or at least engaged with) anything I said besides, "Uncommitted didn't endorse Harris." Honestly, based on your comment, I'm not even sure you understand what the Uncommitted movement was.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 4 months ago

Elabed decided not to vote at the top of the ticket this year and focused instead on downballot races.

Elabed said she feels crushed by the reality of four years of the Trump administration’s policies toward Israel

😑

[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago (2 children)

And find themselves without fault?

[–] [email protected] 41 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Maybe Harris and the Democrats should've spent less time chasing Republicans and fascists for votes.

I voted for her btw. But is incredible how Dem voters repeatedly allow their leadership to be so weak and outt of touch.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And maybe people who repeatedly told others "don't vote for Harris" should claim some culpability for people not voting for Harris...

But it's amazing that every time I suggest that, someone has to talk about the faults of the Harris campaign as if you can't blame more than one party. It's whataboutism.

If you [general you] tell people not to vote for Harris and they don't vote for Harris and then Trump wins, you have some culpability.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Those people weren't running for president. They may be culpable but it's no where near the same level as the actual party leadership.

Dems conveniently blame everyone but their own leadership every time they lose an election and therefore never learn anything from it.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Cool. I'm not a Democrat and this isn't about the Democrats. This is about the people who wanted others to not vote for Harris. Stop trying to change the subject.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Who are these people you're claiming said "don't vote for Harris?" You and I had plenty of back and fourths before and after the election about what a shit job Biden (and then Harris) was doing campaigning but I never once told anyone who to vote for and I don't recall anyone else doing that either. You seem to conflate "valid criticism of a candidate and their policies" to "telling you who to vote for" and that just isn't the case.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (3 children)

not the voters' job to make themselves buyable

that is all on the candidates

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago (4 children)

We are not talking about the voters or the candidates here. We are talking about the people telling voters not to vote for someone and then pretending they had no culpability whatsoever when that person loses. Thank you for proving my point.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

People told others not to vote Harris because she sucked as a candidate

Not the citizens' fault billionaires rigged the election again

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I see you don't understand cause and effect.

If you tell someone not to do something and then they don't do it, you're part of the cause.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (4 children)

The real reason America deserves to fall to fascism is that you still have bootlickers in this very thread pretending the Harris campaign really did all it could to win, and it was the fault of the mean, nasty leftists online calling out her support for a genocide that got Trump elected.

Nobody is gonna learn a goddamn thing from this election, just like they haven't for decades. American democracy died before I was born, people are just realizing it now.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (4 children)

The Trump campaign went all out with a campaign to offend and alienate, ensure everyone knew he’s unfit to be in charge of getting out of bed. Yet somehow he failed to drive away voters in droves

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You saved Palestine 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is America. I’m dumbfounded by the decision making skills we have, collectively.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago

Pollution, lack of education funding, lots of police, lots of jobs with below living wages, no healthcare

All adds up to what we have now

And again not the voters' fault we got got sold out for the check writers

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