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Welcome to c/[email protected]. Broadly, this community is a place to discuss veganism. Discussion on intersectional topics related to the animal rights movement are also encouraged.
'Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals ...'
— abridged definition from The Vegan Society
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A compilation of many vegan resources/sites in a Google spreadsheet:
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Felt like they were catering to the most cognitive dissonant people out there
"Imagine if it was a dog!" Bruh, it's already pretty fucking awful for a pig, I don't need to imagine puppy mills too
"You love animals, you love meat, both are true" helllll naahhhhh
Shame on Kurzgesagt for whitewashing “family farms”
Doesn't the video basically say that there is no "good", but that at least getting to decent would be reasonably cheap? The video is only saying that there is no actual need for most of the torture since without it, prices would only go up to what our parents relatively paid for meat. No where in the video did they say any of the practices would bring farming up to a standard of living that the animals deserve, just not actively being tortured anymore. They actually specifically say many times that even the best practices are worse than the animals deserve.
What's wrong with family farms?
Death is still painful and premature death years before it would have occurred is still very bad for animals
Sure, but why are family farms more evil then industrial farms?
Nobody said they’re more evil? The point is they’re still bad and the solution isn’t “pay a little for family farmed” (both for animal welfare and environmental reason)
Family farms are in the best position to pivot and react to new market demands, it's where change will have to start.
It's a completely unsustainable model. Family farms are a perverse pastoral fetishization of animal cruelty that is incompatable with the fact of continuous population growth.
A farm can produce plants as well as animals - a fully plant based farm can also not be family owned and operated? I agree the world is concentrating into the hands of very few corporations, but I don't welcome it.
Farmers who grow feed can also switch to growing food.
Slaughterhouses... maybe they can switch to growing fungi.
This video genuinely came off as satire to me. Like 'If you spend, $20 more you can reduce the sum total suffering of this animal (before we kill it) while still giving money to us (the very corporations that engage in those practices). That is, if any of these labels even mean anything (which they don't).'
Like, the premise of, 'I don't like it when animals suffer so how can we make them suffer less (while still suffering cuz I like to eat meat)' is such an morally bankrupt starting point for an argument.
I appreciate that they highlighted the insane cruelty of factory farms on a popular channel but ffs if your going to mention the importance of individual purchasing power in determining market trends and not say 'You could also, y'know, just not fucking eat animal products,' then I feel like the arguments you're making are a bit spineless.
"Pastured" and "factory" are not opposites, they're the same thing with a different scale of intensity. There's no meaningful ethical difference, but there are points to make about the environment and the climate, such as the basic fact that "grass fed" means more enteric CH4 emissions, making "factory farming" better for the environment due to efficiency. No amount of "regenerative grazing" is going change that, the methane is tied to the amount of fiber in the rumen, and grasses & forbs are full of fiber.
For a more detailed explanation see: Grazed and Confused
Economically speaking is when you see how this is scam on meat eaters. Most of the animal flesh comes from CAFOs. That's not because grasslands are ugly and CAFOs are beautiful, it's because that's the most efficient way to exploit those animals, which means it's the most efficient way to keep production costs low, which means that it's the most efficient way to come to market with the lowest prices, which is how "the market" is expanded to a large part of the population (who expects cheap meat). The productive grasslands are already maxed out in most of the World and overgrazing is very common.
The US is plagued with ranchers going into natural parks and other places where they compete with wild herbivores (and call on state agencies to exterminate predators). Put simply, if CAFOs disappeared, then the average meat eater would find animal flesh to be very expensive - a food that is afforded a few times per month in "main dish" quantities, or even a few times per year (traditionally at Easter and Christmas holiday feasts). I would be glad to see that happen, but it wouldn't be enough, and it fails to teach the ethical lesson, to do the moral work. It only makes animal-based meat a more obvious luxury (it has always been one), creating black markets and creating economic demand to deforest land and to occupy cropland and turn it into pasture -- and that's something that wars have been fought for, for thousands of years.
The only sensible option is to go vegan globally (don't let animal farmers get away with exports). That frees up plenty of cropland to be reforested or used in more extensive ways.
The mussels suggestion is wild to me. I get it, they try to provide a suggestion that's still technically meat, but mussels are also so much more exotic and presumably expensive than e.g. beans. You can eat beans without converting to full-time veganism.
Kurzgesagt has the same „we’re fucking awful but feel good about it” vibe to every video about humanity.