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Chinese EV maker BYD says new fast-charging system could be as quick as filling up a tank
(www.theguardian.com)
But will it smell as good as filling up a tank of gas?
this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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It dispenses a small cup of gasoline to sniff while it charges
Or to splash on your male model friends
No one can predict a freak gasoline accident!
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Countdown until Trump stupidly bans it as it "harms" President Musk.
...
biden basically did that already. ever noticed there are no byds on the road in the us?
i seem to recall it wasn't an outright ban, but unreasonable tariffs on chinese evs specifically. a soft ban, but enough to be as effective.
The official reason for tariffs is government subsidy AFAIK, but in reality the moment they lower the tariffs, US and EU automobile industry is done.
The heavy subsidy by the Chinese government is the reason they would dominate though. The tariffs won’t ever be lifted unless they stop manipulating the prices to be lower than domestic competitors…
Government providing money to create innovative new tech and make it available at a lowe cost to their constituents
Manipulating the prices to be lower
I just wanted to point out the pervasiveness of capitalist propaganda here. They're not manipulating prices, they're helping their people. It just so happens that our capitalistic systems don't do well when someone helps their neighbor because then we can't abuse them.
Now don't get me wrong though, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you the Chinese government does no wrong. But in just this particular case I think we're picking the wrong battle
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They would dominate because they make a good product that isn’t more expensive than it has to be. US car companies have discontinued most affordable options to try and force people to only buy larger, higher end vehicles that most people have no use for. Now they’re mad that international companies are willing to sell the products they refuse to.
Yes, usa car companies are bitches. But it is laughable that you think the reason it isn't more expensive has nothing to do with being subsidized
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If China is subsidizing the vheicle and we purchase them here, that means we are drawing from China's subsidies.
The claim is this is to save industries but the notion that was need to save specific industry is never questioned.
We're told we're protecting jobs but that's bullshit. We're only protecting the profits of capitalists.
Christ this is a short sighted view.
We have regulations on markets for a reason, to prevent unfair advantage.
Just because the US is protecting their interests doesn’t mean that what China is doing isn’t a deliberate effort to drive others out of business.
It’s an aggressive market tactic and it isn’t good when China does it, just as it isn’t good when a megacorp races to the bottom to drive a mom and pop out of business.
They did the same thing with solar panels and it was a net detriment on the industry NOT and advantage for the consumer.
i seem to recall it wasn’t an outright ban, but unreasonable tariffs on chinese evs specifically.
Yeah, tariffs.
Otherwise, you'd see the subcompact EVs with a 150mile range for about $9,000 US that BYD sells.
No US manufacturer can remotely compete with the cost of EVs from China. Rather than letting people buy cheap EVs, the government decided to tariff them so that they cost as much as a luxury car.
Maybe with a supercapacitor in the station and a chrging cable with the diameter of a fuel hose.
Not really, just make the vehicle 800v and then use the same Amp limits. That's where everyone is out pacing tesla now. Tesla went for amps, the others went for volts
Energy is amp x volt. Same energy faster is more energy in same time, be it amps or volt. Dunno if your grid can bear it multiple times in each city but still better buffer it. And more volts needs more gum or you get the volts.
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Assuming this is about the same thing as the other BYD charging article I saw a couple days ago, they're using a higher voltage, which would let them charge faster without needing a thicker* cable.
(* The copper need not be thicker, but the insulation might need to be)
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I always imagined that portable future wizard (??nuclear??) power would be as simple as unscrewing a 5 gallon cannister from the back of a vehicle and exchanging it at the power/charging station for money. Like the small 20 lb LPG cooking gas tanks. I still think that electric cars are a phase of tech that cannot be sustainable in terms of money and environmental cost and waste for too long and that it is just transitional in our quest. Hydrogen power was always supposed to be the future in my mind.
Hydrogen has extreme structural problems. Hydrogen tanks need constant maintenance, due to how small the molecule is - it's very difficult to contain and prevent corrosion. You then have significant conversion loss between the powerplant-native format of electricity, and the hydrogen. So nothing can be as cheap as pure electricity. Fuelling the car with ammonia that then gets converted to Hydrogen inside the car is the solution to the first problem, but further increases the loss on the second.
What you're describing sounds like a small, high-capacity battery to me! Like a super AA battery. Maybe in 50 years :)
Well, you'd need to standardise battery formats and legally mandate that they have to be easily switchable. I imagine that would get pushback from the car lobby - they do so love to make proprietary branded parts if you let them. If they can't force you to only use original parts for repairs because some part is generic by law, they'll lose out on precious markups.
That said, the car lobby can go take a hike for all I care.
The other issue is that it would have to be easily reachable, even if your trunk is loaded up. The underside is difficult to get at with any kind of setup you'd let amateurs touch. Maybe something on the side could work like you've already got for gas, depending on the weight of the battery. I'm sure it's a solvable problem, if there is some will to see it done.
I'm all for the idea, mind you. This isn't me arguing against it, but rather trying to consider what's stopping us (and the answer is probably "rich people that don't like sharing" as usual).
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Stuff I've heard on naysays:
"The battery will blow up!!!!!"
No, it won't if it's a solid state battery - solid state batteries barely even notice such a charging rate, their temperature might change by half a degree from this monster charging rate.
"You can't supply the power because lines"
Modern large commercial buildings already suck down this amount and more.
"The grid overall can't take 1MW"
So, the 1,000 MW nuclear reactor can't provide 1MW? How about a reactor station with 4 units cranking 4000 MW? How about we add another 1000 in renewables? How about another 800MW with a single gas turbine? How about adding roof solar and a battery bank below ground for the charging station to supplement the power? We haven't even touched hydro or geo yet. Making power is not a problem, and we'll build out the power as we need it.
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how fast would it cause the battery to degrade, though?
That's the beauty of it. Just get a new one every two years like every other electronic device and you won't need to worry about that. Subscription plans will be available.
I wish the batteries were modular/interchangeable. You could just pull into a station, remove the spent battery and replace it with a full one, the spent one can then just get recharged and stored at the station for the next user to change out. You could even bring some extra ones in the trunk for a long trip!
The problem is the form factor. They're broad, flat batteries under the floor of the car, because that's the most available space when you take out the drivetrain. If you wanted to make them swappable, you'd have to sacrifice the space under the hood or the trunk. Or the passenger space. And all that comes with their own safety concerns.
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I have a Chinese flashlight and the battery trademark is so unfortunate (soonfire) like WTF. Lol.
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Is charging speed really the biggest issue with EV's?
More like charging availability imo. Not everyone has a garage to conveniently charge in after a day's work. If you make charging speeds fast enough like with gas, you can negate that though.
Definitely availability and range. I thought of getting EV here in Thailand but limited range + limited charing coverage + 30min charing time is a real deal breaker.
All of which are very solvable issues and I'm sure my next car will be an EV tho
Only by perception, but it practicality mattered, we wouldn't be ligging around two tons of steel per person everywhere we went.
If you're going on a long road trip, yes.
But is it really?
A 2000 mile road trip with 20 minute charging breaks is gonna add what? 3 and a half hours on top of 30 hours of driving?
Unless you plan on doing a bunch of meth and speeding across the desert, I don't see a scenario where a regular person does 8+ hours of driving and doesn't take a 20 minute break.
I'd like to add that for the once in 20 years that car sees a 2000 mile road trip, I don't think waiting a little bit is actually an issue.
Take an honest reflection, and think, how often are people driving driving more than 300 miles in a single session.
Then think about yourself in the position of the road trip, are you going to sacrifice the lifespan of your battery to go from 20 minutes to 5 minutes charging time?, (especially since it's likely you will spend more than 5 minutes anyway just going to the bathroom, eating some food, etc.)
It depends on how conveniently the chargers are located. If you have a smaller battery and can go 200km you'll need a charging station every 190km and mountainous terrain will change those distances as well. You many end up charging sooner than needed in order to get to the next charging spot. In reality it isn't as bad as it sounds. I travel the BC interior with my short range EV and the savings in fuel make it worthwhile to stop more often. Even when I pay the high speed charging rates, it is about 1/4 the cost of gasoline per km but takes 15% longer time to get to destination vs our gas vehicle.
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this would be a massive leap for EVs
I’m sure it’s similar to how they trained DeepSeek for $5M when it was really over a $1B…
They make all kinds of false claims.
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The hurdle to this kind of fast charging isn't the tech in the car nor is it the tech in the charger. It's powering the fucking things.
A charging station the size of a small gas station that can handle a dozen cars at once, basically 6 islands with a pump / charger on each side, would require a nuclear reactor sitting out back to supply the required 1.2 Megawatts of power!
So we're either going to have to get comfy with having an SMR sitting next to every charging station or we're going to have to get over this idea of charging an EV pack in 5 minutes.
People just have the wrong idea about EV charging. They think of it like a gas car, wait until you're low, then go somewhere to fill up. But really, it’s more like charging your phone. You plug it in at home, go to bed, wake up, and it’s ready. You’re not constantly thinking about it.
Fast charging is for road trips, not everyday driving. You’re not supposed to be scrambling to find a charger every couple of days. Ideally, you start each morning with 80%, go about your day, come home, plug in, and do it all over again. You’re never really "empty" unless you seriously mess up. And the whole "how long does it take to charge?" thing, isn't really all that relevant. You’re not sitting there watching it, it just happens while you’re doing other things.
People are stuck on the idea of gas stations, but with an EV, your "gas station" is literally your house.
So ideally it wouldn't be handling 12 cars at once it'd be handling one or two.
Unfortunately, the infrastructure for the standard use case you talk about isn't pervasive enough. Most apartments don't have chargers at all, let alone one per apartment. You can drive by a Tesla or DC fast charge station at almost any time of day in a big city and see a line of cars waiting to use the small number of chargers. People are taking naps in their car in a bank parking lot while charging. Kudos to them for embracing the inconvenience of not charging at home to help the environment, but I never would have bought my 2 EVs if I didn't have charging at home.
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The hurdle to this kind of fast charging isn't the tech in the car nor is it the tech in the charger. It's powering the fucking things.
Agreed.
would require a nuclear reactor sitting out back to supply the required 1.2 Megawatts of power!
Eh....
At 5 minutes a car, each charger would be able to accommodate 12 cars per hour. The 12-charger station, fed by that nuclear reactor, would be able to handle 144 per hour.
A typical gas station that size has an 8500 gallon tank, and refills 2-5 times per week. That amount of fuel will serve somewhere between 1000 to 3000 cars per week, or about 6 to 18 cars per hour.
This doesn't call for a nuclear reactor at the station. This calls for a sufficiently large battery pack at each station that can "trickle" charge continuously. I say "trickle" - if I did my math right, it would be about as much power as 15 hot tubs or 60 water heaters. About as much as a grocery store, with all its freezers, refrigerators, lights, HVAC, etc.
Certainly a lot of power, but certainly not outside the realm of possibility. On-site solar installations could offset a significant percentage of that demand.
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