this post was submitted on 26 Mar 2025
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162
Apple barred from Google antitrust trial, putting $20 billion search deal on the line (arstechnica.com)
submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 42 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Apple seeks search partner, must have $20 billion

If this penalty sticks, Apple could be looking for a new suitor. Something has to be the default search provider in Safari and other Apple products.

Does something really have to replace it? Why not a menu of options? Make the user choose something. If they choose Google, great! If they choose DDG, fantastic! Whatever it is, make it a choice.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Yes something has, they need their moneyss.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Wait hasn’t DDG been the default in Safari for a few years now?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago

No, that's like, the entire point of the article.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago

Users can choose it, but it isn’t the default

[–] [email protected] 34 points 3 days ago (5 children)

I will be honest, say there's a new law that says on every device, users have the initial choice to select between any search engine, they'll probably choose google anyways because most of these people have grown up that way.

Make a better alternative and people will come. Ddg is ok but it still is basically a reskinned Bing and Bing itself isn't that good. Other search engines aren't as polished yet either

[–] [email protected] 43 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Luckily Google is working tirelessly on making their own search product worse every year.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It honestly might already be worse

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 days ago

You think it is bad now? Just wait for the new and enshittified Google Search 2026.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I’m happy with Kagi. I feel like it is equal to Google in it’s prime.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Not many people want to (or can) shell out 10 $/month for a search engine. I'm not saying it's pointless, I'm simply saying that few people would do it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Those same people probably have no problem paying more than that for YouTube Premium for an ad-free experience. Truth is, ad-supported search will always go to shit because it’s in direct competition with its own product. It’s the same reason YouTube with ads keeps getting worse.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Because according to their perception "search" has less value than "watch", which may make sense if one seldom really uses a search engine (i.e., they just use the same 3-4 websites).

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, you’re right. The value prop is different for different people. But I use search a lot more than I use YouTube, so I pay for the former and not the latter. I think that over time, people will get more used to the idea of paying for search. Not everyone, but plenty of people who want the premium experience it offers. I know I could never go back.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

People here loves to downvote for every little shit they disagree with... And they say Reddit is toxic... Anyway, I don't care. I just disable "show score" in settings and let the kids play.

Back to the topic, I don't use youtube at all, I don't like watching videos. I think Kagi is a great idea, but honestly 10 €/month is a lot of money for me at the moment, so I'm just self-hosting SearXNG and call it a day.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That’s why I self-host SearXNG. And have enabled several other “underdog” search engines like Mojeek and Marginalia. On my devices I’m using Redirect Web for Safari to send any search request to Ecosia (configured in my Safaris) to my SearXNG instance. Works great for me!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

Sam . Mine is hosted on my RPi. Not ideal, I know, but at least it strips out tracking bits from the upstream engines.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

I switched from DuckDuckGo to Startpage and it has been much better. Problem is, Startpage is just a reskin of google without the AI crap and fewer ads so there is no real escape.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

It has been proven to work, and the idea is not to make people choose others it is to encourage competition. How would you get your better product in front of most people if not for it being a requirement to be showcased. There are so mamy people using default everything on anything they have ever bought

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Some people are just starting to get their first iPhones and Macs TODAY. We're not all old farts on the internet as much as we'd like to think so.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This is going to affect Firefox a lot more than it will affect Apple. At least Apple have options to shift money around. Firefox doesn't.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Good! Maybe Mozilla can stop being shit and paying their CEOs tens of millions while looking for ways to enshittify Firefox.

Googles money has ruined Mozilla.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 3 days ago

“A lack of money will prevent them from doing shitty things for money!”

I get what you’re going for, but it’s likely googles money that has slowed down the enshitification process.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Indeed. But it seems one isn't allowed to criticize Mozilla here, so wait for downvotes or enraged replies.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

People criticize Mozilla all the time here. Look at the post about changing their privacy statement.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

And they are systematically downvoted to hell.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Here is a link to said post in this community: Firefox deletes promise to never sell personal data, asks users not to panic | Mozilla says it deleted promise because "sale of data" is defined broadly

The top post is critical of Mozilla has a 250 / 4 ratio. Where do you see systematic downvoting?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

One data point isn't statistically significant.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

There are over a hundred comments critical of Mozilla on that post.

Here's a follow up post. Mozilla is already revising its new Firefox terms to clarify how it handles user data

Over a 50 comments. I don't see any evidence of systematic downvoting.

Where do you see systematic downvoting?

Also what is your definition of systematic? Is 4 downvotes systematic to you?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Shit, how much is Google spending on these deals??

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The google annual cost to have Google as default search on iPhone is north of 20b, hence the number in the article headline. They also pay lots to Mozilla and others.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yup, hundreds of millions to Mozilla.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Also why if this goes through Mozilla and Firefox will both be killed instantly. They're almost entirely funded by Google.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Mozilla could remain funded if they stopped doing things like paying the CEO seven million dollars per year while laying off employees. If Mozilla dies, it will 100% be because of corporate greed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Mozilla could probably survive with no additional funding, but they'd have to make some steep cuts. They have many millions in investments, enough to fund something like $20M indefinitely. That's a lot lower than their current budget, but probably reasonable if they only needed to develop Firefox.

If Google funding is pulled entirely, they'll likely find a search deal (e.g. Bing, DDG, etc), but it'll be a lot less in royalties. However, if you look at their financials, they're already putting a lot of the Google money away into investments, so they can certainly survive some cuts, provided they can something in the ballpark of what Google was offering.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

In 2021, according to internet, they paid $26.3 billion to be the default search engine on phones and browsers.

So assuming those are not long term deals they are probably over $30 billion now.