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Mid-day should be the middle of the day. Mid-night should be the middle of the night.
If you like more light in the ~~evening~~ morning go to bed late and wake up late. If you like light in the ~~morning~~ evening, go to bed early and wake up early.
Stop fucking with the clocks and making nonsensible decisions
Mid-day should be the middle of the day. Mid-night should be the middle of the night.
You'd need new clocks, those times drift every day, so 12:00 midday would need to change automatically.
There are a lot of regions that are put into the wrong time zone, because that's easier for business. They're not even close to 12:00 being the middle of the day especially during DST.
It also depends on your location within your particular time zone. You can't have noon at the same time of day on both the eastern and western end of the zone.
We aren't all having the same argument. Solar noon should, indeed, be close to chronological noon, but that will only ever be true in the center of the time zone.
On "standard time" on the western end of a time zone, solar noon is (ostensibly) 11:30 am, while on the eastern end, it's 12:30. Under DST, those times shift to 12:30 and 13:30, respectively. In zones wider than 15 degrees, there can be more than an hour difference.
When the eastern end of the zone argues for permanent Standard Time, and the western end of the zone argues for permanent DST, both ends are arguing for the same preference.
"Midday" (solar noon) should indeed be close to noon, but midday should never be before 12:00pm.
The solution is to lock the clocks on one system or the other, and allow political subdivisions to move the line so their clocks work best for them.
Yes, but the EU is split into four time zones now and if you implement this technically there would be many more:
8 if we'd have 30-min time-zones 16 if we'd have 15-min time-zones 24 if we'd have 10-min time-zones 48 if we'd have 5-min time-zones 240 if we'd have 1-min time-zones
I'm not saying we should keep dst, but we can't have everyone have midday at 12:00 and midnight at 00:00.
You can keep 1 hour time zones just fine. It still puts noon within 1 hour of mid day, which you don’t get with DST.
If you like more light in the evening, go to bed late and wake up late.
What about people who are in school or employed?
Your first two lines need a caveat: ... at a local meridian as chosen by the will of the people*.
Otherwise you end up in situations where every individual location sets their clock by local noon, which varies by longitude. If you think it's bad there are a handful of different time zones across your continent, wait until it's different from one end of town to the other.
The British invented (or popularised) standard time to avoid those sorts of problems. Problems that didn't exist until high-speed long distance travel became a thing. And time zones were a later addition because Britain didn't need any, but they're also somewhat necessary.
* for "will of the people", read "will of the ruling class" as necessary. See: China.
We need a standard system for tracking time. If every city decides their own time based on the sun it will be chaos.
Have the whole world go on UTC, that way there's never confusion.
I've had way too many conversations with people that simply can't comprehend how that works. "But then we'd have to do everything so much earlier, it would be dark all the time." I try to explain that we'd still do everything at the same time of day, just call it something different, but they just can't wrap their minds around that.
While we're at it, cancel the time zones. I have no fucking clue why we're still pretending everyone wakes up at the same time of the day all over the world. All it does is mess up scheduling for when you actually want to talk to people on the other side of the world.
How would we decide to handle the date with no time zones? Half the world would have a date switch during the daytime. Not necessarily impossible to navigate but it would be confusing for a while.
I will never understand why people want the time we only use for 3 months to be the time we use for the whole year. I would rather people just be able to admit that December is dark (for the northern hemisphere) and we can do shit at a different time.
I literally couldn’t care less which time we pick, I just want the madness to STOP
wdym 3 months? both CET and CEST are used approximately half a year
In North America DST is used from second Sunday of March until first Sunday of November.
This means there are 239 days in DST, and 126 days out of DST in 2025. Close to 2 to 1 ratio.
I know it's different with CEST and CET, and it sucks even more donkeyballs there, when the sun sets around 4PM (instead of 5) regardless.
DST should really be the standard in most places. You want more sunlight in the afternoon, not in the morning.
I prefer more sunlight in the morning. It's better for your circadian rhythm and it is easier to wake up when it's bright outside.
Yep, the “standard” time should definitely be what we currently call daylight saving.
To people thinking of enforcing UTC around the globe:
obligatory: https://qntm.org/abolish
Before I read this article, I also thought it would be a great idea to get rid of timezones entirely and just use UTC for everything. To quote from the link,
Abolishing time zones brings many benefits, I hope. It also:
- causes the question “What time is it there?” to be useless/unanswerable
- necessitates significant changes to the way in which normal people talk about time
- convolutes timetables, where present
- means “days” (of the week) are no longer the same as “days”
- complicates both secular and religious law
- is a staggering inconvenience for a minimum of five billion people
- makes it near-impossible to reason about time in other parts of the world
- does not mean everybody gets up at the same time, goes to work at the same time, or goes to bed at the same time
- is not simpler.
As long as humans live in more than one part of the world, solar time is always going to be subjective. Abolishing time zones only exacerbates this problem.
(copied from one of my 9-month old comments)
I mean the best refute of it I've ever heard is that the date changes in the middle of the day, and that sounds miserable
UTC all around the world is a completely different thing than UTC (or UTC+1) all over Europe. China also spans just over three natural timezones and they get by just fine with one.
they get by just fine with one.
China spans five geographic time zones and it does cause some pain to those living far away from Beijing. It's not a great system.
I advocate for UTC everywhere. So far I'm always dismissed as a joke.
Because time doesn't really matter in any of those situations.
You still need to know all that information.
Since for most people and most of the world the normal life follows a fairly daylight centred rhythm that is something that's sensible to use as a common basis.
The simple fact is that on the Monday after DST starts, more people have heart attacks and strokes.
Meaning that not going away from it means people will continue to die from it.
I live in a non-DST area and it is very nice
The only time I'm reminded that DST is a thing in most of the world, is when people are complaining about it online after it already switched over.
No one is complaining about when we all gain an hours sleep in Autumn
I do. I can't stand it because where I live it means I will no longer see the sun. Not to even mention how much it sucks ass from a mental standpoint to get out of work and have it be dark. I could not care less if I see a tiny bit of sunlight on my way to work lol. I've had multiple jobs where once ST hits, I'm going to work and coming home in darkness. I literally dont see the sun until the weekend. Imo give me whichever option that maximizes sunlight during most people's free time.
give me whichever option that maximizes sunlight during most people's free time
That’s not changed by adjusting clocks, it’s changed by adjusting work hours.
I have never liked it.
As a person, I don't like the inconsistency.
As a developer, I don't like to not be able to use the local time as a consistent way to order data.
As a father, I don't like to have to adjust a daily routine of my baby who has just reached a good 24 hour schedule.
Putting out a fire you started feels like doing hero's work.
You'll trade one day of one extra hour of sleep for increased misery all winter long?
They need to seriously quit this bullshit. It serves no practical purpose in our modern society, while also having tangible negative effects. So why keep doing it?
I enthusiastically support getting rid of this nonsense.
I would have never known if it wasn't because a coworker told me or because of articles like these. My cat wakes me up at 7- 7:30 and he did that this morning too, so I was very surprised that I slept only 7 hours instead of 8 (before I knew). But the funnits part is that my cat followed DST haha
Your cat must be in on the conspiracy. Perhaps even part of the deep state.
I have a taxi company. On one night, one of my drivers did two jobs, one dispatched at 00:15, the other at 00:45, and he clocked off at 02:15. How long was he working for?
A) 1 hour
B) 2 hours
C) 3 hours
D) 2 hours 30 minutes
E) any of the above
American here, trick question, it's E. Irrelevant, the driver is only paid through tips and the employer doesn't pay payroll taxes, so his working hours are of no consequence.
I've heard a few complaints today from people irl about having to change their clocks. Not about the time change itself, but having to change the time on clocks. It took me two minutes lol.
I have not changed the clock for like 10 years or more. All my clocks are synchronized and the oven/microwave clock will permanently be a 00:00, I don't have time set it every time lights go out...
I fucking hate it