this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2025
156 points (100.0% liked)

Fuck Cars

12147 readers
785 users here now

A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

Rules

1. Be CivilYou may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.

2. No hate speechDon't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.

3. Don't harass peopleDon't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.

4. Stay on topicThis community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.

5. No repostsDo not repost content that has already been posted in this community.

Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.

Posting Guidelines

In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:

Recommended communities:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
156
‘Sorry mate, I didn’t see you’: when drivers look but don’t see cyclists on the road (theconversation.com)
submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
44 comments fedilink hide all child comments
all 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 months ago (3 children)

They really need to change the title to "look and don't care"

Drivers take insane risks to not have to sit behind a bicycle.

I often get passed right before a bend where it's impossible to see what's coming, leaving barely any room to maneuver.

Even when they see a car coming, many still attempt (and often fail) to pass me.

At crossings, they simply not care and keep driving, even if you have right of way.

It's not that they don't see you, they just expect you to not take a risk against a car.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

Or the classic narrow pass on the approach to a red light where I’m simply going to filter past away.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

If I took a shot for every time a car overtook me in order to speed up to a red light, I might die of alcohol poisoning before DUI.

The slower speed just works better within crowded cities. It gets you where you’re going faster.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The local heart sugery unit in the hospital really needs to encourage the surgeons to start turning up in plenty of time before the start of their shift.

It's crazy how many of them out on the streets are cutting it so fine that they can't follow along for a little while until it is safe to overtake.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

You noticed this, too?! I live near a major regional medical center/hospital, and just minutes before the start of shifts is when the really insane drivers are on the streets, headed that direction. I know it's medical staff, because of their vanity plates.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

@oo1 @Hawk
Are you implying that if your job is important that you should have superior rights to use public space? What if the person on the bicycle is also a heart surgeon on their way to work?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

erm . . no I obviously don't think there a loads of heart surgoens late for work all over the streets either on cars or bikes.

But in general, yes, people working for emergency services should have superior rights to public space that's why they get the flashing lights and sirens. If the biker is an emergency services and turns on lights and siren, others should make way.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I think you've completely misread their comment here

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Motorists are taught to make sure it is safe before proceeding, other cars and trucks are a threat, cyclists and pedestrians are not a threat to a motorist in a vehicle. It's like the invisible gorilla video, sometimes when concentrating on one thing, can't see another no matter how obvious it is.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Here they don’t even look to see if it’s clear. If there’s a break in traffic, they go. Doesn't matter they’re starting from zero and traffic is going 50. “I go now. Good luck to you.”

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

The closest I’ve been to an accident was trying to cross a very busy intersection full of pedestrians, cyclists and cars. Intensively looking out for them and wait for a safe moment, then missing a full sized tram.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Rule #1 for cyclists, if they didn't look you in the eyes, they didn't see you.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As somebody that rode a motorcycle for years: you can make eye contact and still be unseen.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I would argue it's hard to make eye contact with most motorcyclists because you cant see their face

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Rule #2: Always assume that car drivers don't look for you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

A few days ago there was this guy who was looking at me through the passenger window but still running the stop sign and not yielding.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I've noticed a few intersections around me have put up "Yield to bicycles when turning right" signs.

Sad that a basic fundamental rule of driving needs its own dedicated sign. It'd be like having a sign that says "Proceed on green".

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

We've started putting NO RIGHT ON RED signs at intersections, and motorists are still running over pedestrians!

You can't design away stupidity. The danger is people behind the wheel of these aerodynamic tanks.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Just make turning at all on a red illegal. Many countries do this and we get by just fine. I went to the US a couple summer ago and wife and I got nearly taken out while walking across a street by this woman only looking left and not planning to stop at the light coming off a highway.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You can't design away stupid, but if this is a regular problem then the intersection is designed stupid and you need to design a better one.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/201978334-killed-by-a-traffic-engineer

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You can't design away all stupidity, but you can absolutely design away a lot of it. For starters, red lights are red lights. You should never be turning on a red light. Drivers who are used to turning right on red are more likely to do it even when it's not allowed.

Further to that, you can improve safety by:

  • Keeping turn radii very low, so drivers have to slow down to take a sharp right angle turn, instead of smooth higher speed curves.
  • Keep pedestrians safe by giving them a lead time: let them start crossing at intersections with lights a few seconds before cars are given a green light to start turning, so they are well into the intersection and clearly visible before drivers start
  • Where major roads cross less major roads, use a wombat crossing: cars must drive up as though over a speed bump to the pedestrian's level, instead of pedestrians walking down onto road level, forcing drivers to slow down like when they go over a speed bump, while visually indicating that pedestrians clearly have priority
  • Combine the above with having the crossing set back from the road a little so cars have completed their right angle turn and are looking straight ahead at pedestrians before they cross their path
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

I appreciate the reply. I really didn't mean that you can't design away ALL stupidity, as there are clearly infrastructure and road designs all over the world that force motorists to drive in a way that causes less harm.

But my thoughts are that if you have to design infrastructure to "be safe", rather than have drivers drive safely, then we really should re-evaluate whether these vehicles should be allowed at all. I've seen multiple cases of motorists driving over concrete barriers designed to keep cyclists safe. It's nice that they didn't kill anyone, but the fact that it even happened is highly worrisome!

Same with speed. Yes, you can design all sorts of things to physically slow drivers down. But the fact that someone would choose to drive 2 or 3x the speed limit is the real problem, not that the roads physically allow them to.

We, as a society, have to change a driver's behaviour and attitudes.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

when drivers [don't] look [and] don’t see cyclists on the road

me at almost every goddamn intersection. The bike lanes have only been there for about five-six years, I guess they still need time to get used to them... >.>

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I just started driving, cant tell how drivers dont see them, theres mirrors for a fucking reason, look before taking a change in action.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

It turns out that for some drivers, there is this psychological side where they've trained themselves to only look for car-shaped objects. As a result, they may not even notice motorcyclists or bicyclists.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Then there's the drivers who just don't give a fuck.

I was on my motorcycle heading to work one day at 5:30 am, in the left track of the curb lane, and some twat cut between me and the curb. He scared the shit out of me.

I thought about following him but decided work was more important.

When I was riding it got to a point I was happier as a passenger than the driver.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I literally had someone honk at me while I was crossing the street on foot, at a crosswalk where they had a red light and I had the right of way. Some drivers just assume you are supposed to get out of their way regardless of the law.

On the bike I stop (or at least California stop) and check at every crossroads, I move to the side off the road for awhile to let cars pass if they are behind me, walk the bike across any larger intersections using the crosswalk. make every effort to be seen and polite, oh so polite.

But a fucking crosswalk, while the light is red for cars, who doesn't know how that works? You shouldn't drive if you don't know at least the basic rules.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

In Australia it's the opposite. Everyone knows pedestrians have absolutely right of way.

The only issue is honestly cyclists, riding two abreast, when it's not safe, regardless of legality.

Pedestrians are honoured. Like a revered creature. They wave. They say thank you. They are holy.

Cyclists though, intermingle. They slow traffic. They force drivers to veer into the oncoming lane, as they ride side by side. They create Angst.

It's shitty, but it's the truth of it.

Give and take my friends.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If only cyclists wouldn't be as equally ruthless against pedestrians. Here in Germany cyclists expect you to jump out of the way while the drive illegally on the sidewalk. This shows that they just want to be equally selfish, so they deviate to driving somewhere else where they can impose their rules on weaker traffic attendants. That's just entitled-bitch behaviour.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

I spend time in Germany each year. I've seen exactly this. You're getting down voted purely through simple ignorance.