I think everyone focused on birth tourism is missing the fucking point. If being born in the US is no longer a necessary and sufficient qualification for citizenship, how does the child of two lawful citizens born on US soil become a citizen? Before you come at me with “it’s obvious” ask yourself which children the Trump admin or future GOP leaders would come after next and ask yourself, really fucking ask yourself, if it’s still obvious.
this post was submitted on 14 May 2025
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I believe it's very obvious, but we won't like the answer.
Fair point.
Since when can an executive order nullify a Constitutional Amendment??
Seem like a pretty open shut case to me...
Since the SC justices started accepting bribes
Trump does realize that his son Baron would get deported if this passes ... right? The question is, deported to where? If you were born in the USA you will not have citizenship anywhere else.
Deported to Salvador of course
Lets see how they find a way for Trump to get his way.
As a non-American I can’t believe that my wife and I could fly to the USA when she’s 8 months pregnant, give birth while there, and our kid would then be a US citizen, and as such we could probably then just choose to stay in the USA indefinitely. It makes no sense.
The fact that this has been possible all this time is baffling. Passport tourism is not something that should ever have been allowed, especially when it is mostly used by illegal immigrants in order to gain protection from being deported.
This shouldn’t even be a “left vs right” or “progressive vs conservative” thing. It’s just a bad thing that has no reason to exist.
Maybe you should take the time to understand American history and culture before forming opinions on those topics. Just because you don't understand the reason it exists doesn't mean there's no reason.
As an American, I love that people who love this country so much they're willing to move their family halfway around the globe to live here have the ability to do this. Absolutely I want these people to be citizens. This country was literally founded by people doing exactly this.
This ability wasn't an accident. It's not a mistake that this is possible, it's deliberately written into our constitution.
I understand American history, which is why I understand that it hasn’t been necessary for decades by this point.
You’re confusing immigration with exploiting a loophole in order to stay in the country illegally.
How often does this happen though and is it really an issue in the overall scheme of things... Even if it happens 10 thousand times a years (which is probably a way high estimate) so? That nothing.
These aren't gang members and drug dealers doing this, its mother desperate for a better life. How will probab;y work their asses off and be good people.
There's always going to be loopholes and people side steping laws. The question is, is this really a hill worth dying on? And causing a MANY other bigger issues to try and fix?
It’s actually estimated at about 250k a year:
Each year, an average of about 255,000 babies born on U.S. soil would start life without U.S. citizenship based on their parents’ legal status, the research shows.
You're looking at one scenario which doesn't come up too frequently, and based on that you've decided that the way your country does it is better. Maybe you're right.
Here's a different scenario where I think the US does it better: when citizenship is only inherited, a person could be born in your country, live their whole lives knowing only your culture, and still not be considered a citizen because their parents were immigrants. Or worse, their grandparents were immigrants. That's a homegrown underclass.
I don't assume that the US has everything figured out, but there's a reason a nation of immigrants values the rights of immigrants.
I’m not saying my country does it better btw.
In your scenario, the parents lived in the country all that time without becoming citizens, so were there illegally.
There’s a difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants.
There is a difference between legal & illegal immigrants. I was talking about legal ones & made no mention of illegal immigration. It sounds like you might be saying that legal immigrants become illegal after some period of time? If that's true in your country, that's fine. But in many countries, people can legally be non-citizen residents for extended periods. In countries without birthright citizenship, their kids aren't automatically citizens.
Yeah, see, anyone that has the money to fly here to have a baby is probably someone the people who oppose birthright citizenship don't have a problem with. Because that doesn't happen unless you're rich as fuck.
But, personally, as an American, I don't see the problem. If you're here long enough to have a baby, then it's very likely you've been here for at least a year on a student or work visa, and you're not likely leaving anytime soon. You don't just pop in and have a baby, lmao. Seriously the number of kids you could possibly refer to is in the hundreds, if that, and applies mainly to the wealthy, who aren't affected by this. Just spout some white replacement theory, and we can go to ignoring you faster.
This shouldn’t even be a “left vs right” or “progressive vs conservative” thing.
Things that are said by a right-winger, likely an extreme right-winger.
Why do you care about illegal immigrants? My nation had a higher influx of refugees and their ratio to local citizens was also higher than USA, so, why do you care about illegal immigrants?
Why does your nation having more refugees etc matter?
Illegal immigration is wrong. If you want to live in another country, follow the rules and do it the right way.
"freedom advocate" arguing for strict border regulation and the ultimate authority of nation states lol.
If you had plural brain cells you'd probably read into what actual freedom oriented philosophies have to say on the matter.
Freedom to lick that boot
I get that it's legally wrong, but do you think it's ethically wrong?
What if someone thinks the laws and systems in place aren't morally perfect?
I don’t think it’s ethically wrong to have migration policies in place, no. If we didn’t it would easily enable certain countries with gigantic populations to essentially take over the world.
I don’t see anything immoral or unethical about the legal immigration system in the USA for example, do you?
What certain countries? And are you alleging there is a coordinated "take over"?
No, I specifically said that if there were no immigration laws then there could be. China for one would absolutely start taking over countries with sheer number of people.
Fascinating! What other countries do you think would start taking over places without immigration laws?
What if "the right way" is purposely blocked or made impossible?
A lot of American history has clear demonstration of using the letter of the law to impede people trying to live their life.
Georgia city clerk: "Oh sorry, we need you to bring your land ownership forms. Don't own land? Well, this office is closed for lunch, have a good day".
Then you don’t get to go and live in that country.
It's mostly racism in the case of the US.
The US wants to preserve its exceptionalism, and thus doesn't want to get "flooded with a wave of normal people from other countries".
They worry it would dilute their exceptionalism.
Apart from that, other countries can have other reasons to be against immigration. I live in Europe, and for me it's mostly economic concerns: I'm thinking that immigrants make the economic situation of the people living in this country worse, because they take jobs and occupy resources such as housing. It's not racism, just economic concern.
It's so funny that Mr. "Enlightened" European's take on immigration being bad is verbatim right-wing American politician talking points. You're so much better than those racist Americans because you definitely only don't want brown people because of FACTS and LOGIC.
Ah yes "taking jobs." Capitalists just leave the jobs lying around waiting to pay white people lots of money locally but then evil brown people come and take them.
If you're so concerned about the economy why don't you focus on the Lords and dictators sucking the wealth out of you and your fellow man rather than picking a fight with people trying to make a better life for themselves.
You're such a little brainwashed peasant that you're turning your anger towards those that have less rather than focusing on those robbing you blind.
What a good peasant
If you’re so concerned about the economy why don’t you focus on the Lords and dictators sucking the wealth out of you and your fellow man rather than picking a fight with people trying to make a better life for themselves.
You’re such a little brainwashed peasant that you’re turning your anger towards those that have less rather than focusing on those robbing you blind.
You're wrong in assuming i'm not fighting against the rich. I am a vocal proponent of wealth tax, and dedicate a lot of effort towards that goal.
I assume you should have taken the time to learn one thing about me or two before forming an assessment about my character.
Lol sounds like racism covered in a new coat of paint.
how about you fucking learn to read my point? I was explaining it two minutes ago.
And that's why you're not an American. We love this shit. We don't have hundreds of years of history and culture. Our history and culture is of people coming here to find a better life.
And this administration is trying to take that away from us.
It isn't that cut and dry. If you are coming to the U.S. and your baby is due to be birthed during your stay border control can just turn you away. They can also turn you away if they think there is a potential it may come early during your stay and don't have insurance already paid for to cover any medical costs that may be needed for the birth and care, with plans on how you and they will be leaving the country.
People who think they can just fly in and have a baby here willy nilly haven't dealt with border control in the U.S.
As a U.S. citizen I have been held/detained at the border and they kept my passport until I could prove exactly what modes of transportation I would be using in my own country or they wouldn't release me.
Don’t worry, just buy trump gold immigration card instead.
Have they stopped selling the Biden Free Entry Kits that came with a free phone, free money, free hotels, and a quick path to voting rights?
as a non-american
Then shut the fuck up. It doesn't affect you, nor does it concern you. Our citizenship policies are not your concern.
It doesn't affect me, but it's not illegal to have good points and valid criticism about other country's internal politics. As long as they are reasonable and respect the different circumstances of that other country.
And you have neither. Fuck off.
Now, you're being emotional, and i respect your stance, but "fuck off" is not a great argument.
Are you my coworker? He likes to call people emotional whenever they don’t agree with him too. If you want lack of emotion, go rant at an AI.
I agree with the previous poster. Fuck off.
I know you're getting blasted with downvotes but your original point isn't bad imo, just...misguided maybe? I agree that it doesn't seem right someone who's 8.5 months pregnant can buy a plane ticket and stay with a friend/family member until they have the baby, making the child a US citizen.
But this doesn't happen as often as the right would have you believe. It's like the claim single mothers on food stamps are buying steaks and only having babies to get more government handouts. Does it happen? Sure, of course some selfish people will abuse the system. But again, nowhere near the amount the right would have you believe. And to be honest if the price of having a robust social safety net is that some people will try to scam it for personal gain, then so be it.
Immigration was critical to have enough manpower to exploit the vast untapped resources of the "undiscovered" continent. So were guns. A lot of shit that seems weird by modern standards actually makes perfect sense in the context of historical empire-building.
That’s fine, but it hasn’t been necessary for decades.
I'm not talking about whether it's necessary, I'm talking about why it's culturally ingrained.
It did have a reason historically to exist.
America is a pretty young country. Lots of people moved there from Europe in the last 200 years. Birthright citizenship existed sothat people would move to America, to increase its population numbers.
Now that America's population numbers are hitting a maximum, immigration doesn't make sense anymore, and neither does birthright citizenship.
It is dependent on the developmental stage of the country and its population numbers IMO.