this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2023
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Science Memes

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It's fair to imagine the challenges a building team would face 2k plus years ago.

Like in this example, building levers that are strong enough to lift the load. I bet they broke a bunch of stuff.

But eventually they figured it out, via trial and error. Levers, ramps, etc. They probably couldn't describe why those things were inherently the best way, but more approached from the "we tried 9 other ways and they suck. This is the best way."

Next, the phrase "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" is relevant here, but in a backwards way.

Since we struggle to imagine what it would take for an ancient society to master the techniques to build these things, we therefore begin to grasp for unrealistic conclusions (magic...read...aliens).

Same goes for Europeans building cathedrals and stuff, the trick is the history, the methods and the results were more documented and understood.

There are some racism concerns that I think go beyond and around what I've discussed, which is more abstract. I'm not discounting the other topics, just not covering them here.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Egyptians didn't just decide "hey, let's build a pyramid". Mastabas were first, the shape of a Pyramid evolved later.

Not to mention that there's a few faulty pyramids (e.g. Bent Pyramid which were finished quickly or all together abandoned before completion.

Merer forgot to mention aliens in his diary too.

But hey, aliens did it. They couldn't just land on Earth. Their ships were designed to land on a Pyramid because that's how intelligent race would build their spaceships. Don't question it, just trust the specialists (who wrote books!).

Anyway, for anyone interested in Ancient Egypt, the best thing out there (I think) are Bob Briers lectures also available on Audible.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't know why you replied this to me, but cool links.

I never suggested there's any validity in the alien-pyramid thing, only described how it could have entered the discussion in the first place.

("We don't know what they did, seems hard even for us, must have been magic". Pathway)

Not advocating anything, not arguing anything, no tinfoil on my frog's heads, they live naturally.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pretty sure they were just agreeing with you. It's like an argument you imagine in the shower, but co-op mode.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I like the theories about them being ancient power stations or radio devices, using the water channels and gold cap stone to create enough pd to be useful in occult practices. It doesn't have to be aliens that helped make them but I think there's something the really resonates with the idea of aliens coming down and teaching ancient people how to make super complex and beautiful machines to synthesize small amounts of potent narcotics. Like none of the other reasons aliens would come make much sense but a tiktokable prank like that really does.

Imagine how fascinating it would be if we find loads of old alien stuff on Mars with like little model pyramids and pictures of them with the pharaoh. Or if when we meet aliens and have first contact they got us up with galactic tiktok and people are reposting all the old videos of pranks aliens have pulled on earth over the years.

Yeah they were probably just the biggest coolest looking thing that knew how to make so everyone wanted one, yeah they were probably just dragging rocks up sandy inclones and using water filled counter weights.. but we don't know aliens weren't there so I'm going to enjoy being open to that possibility.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The bent pyramid may not have been faulty, but instead had a different internal layout because of it's use in cult worship rather than only burial.

Great video from History for Granite archeologist on the subject.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

One thing is for sure: you can't leverage those stones with a primed FJ 1x6 from Lowe's. I'll bet they went through quite a few of those!

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Pretty sure the Egyptians were smart enough. But the European cathedrals cannot be explained w/o aliens

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Great Wall of China? Come-on, no body can do that. And its not aliens, its GOD, who show favors protecting his favorite people, the Chinese.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Not to mention the Chrysler tower. Def aliens

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The constant barrage of Joe Rogan clips of idiots claming it was impossible to move these huge stones over those distances with the tech at the time was what drove me to disable YouTube shorts.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The creation of the feature is what made me disable shorts. If I wanted vine then I'd go back to 2013.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Hey take that back. Vine and 2013 were marvellous times

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Lifting it is like 1/100th of the challenge. Moving it across hundreds of miles, cutting it, getting it to the top of the pyramid, and setting it in place are all bigger problems than simply lifting the stone.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think they started at the top and then built down

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

they were just trying to find the upper block limit after hitting bedrock

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

He who cast the first stone built the pyramid

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Lifting is the hard part, you can move blocks short distances on rollers, long distances on barges, really short distances by a dozen men pushing

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nobody has so far given you a serious answer, so:

Cutting - They only had IIRC bronze, which is not enough on its own to cut through the granite. However using sand to add friction makes it cut significant faster/easier.

Moving miles - Boats are incredibly capable of carrying heavy loads with minimal energy expenditure to move said boat. Using logs and levers also goes far.

Getting to the too of the pyramid, that's a little more of a mystery. But there is evidence they included ramps within the structure as they built the bigger ones as they went. And IIRC the smaller ones had pulley systems going through the center.

It doesn't require fancy tech, just of patience and application of basic physics.

Here is a guy using some of the basic movement techniques in his backyard with multi ton stones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewtm1s02Ih8

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But we all know the lever was invented by Jayzus Christ in America when Washington and Lincoln were reading the Bible and praying together!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

There's a whole chapter on levers called Leviticus

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Were block and tackles a thing in that time too?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The Greek historian Herodotus instead depicts Khufu as a heretic and cruel tyrant. In his literary work Historiae, Book II, chapter 124–126, he writes: "As long as Rhámpsinîtos was king, as they told me, there was nothing but orderly rule in Egypt, and the land prospered greatly. But after him Khéops became king over them and brought them to every kind of suffering: He closed all the temples; after this he kept the priests from sacrificing there and then he forced all the Egyptians to work for him. So some were ordered to draw stones from the stone quarries in the Arabian mountains to the Nile, and others he forced to receive the stones after they had been carried over the river in boats, and to draw them to those called the Libyan mountains. And they worked by 100,000 men at a time, for each three months continually. Of this oppression there passed ten years while the causeway was made by which they drew the stones, which causeway they built, and it is a work not much less, as it appears to me, than the pyramid. For the length of it is 5 furlongs and the breadth 10 fathoms and the height, where it is highest, 8 fathoms, and it is made of polished stone and has figures carved upon it. For this, they said, 10 years were spent, and for the underground chambers on the hill upon which the pyramids stand, which he caused to be made as sepulchral chambers for himself in an island, having conducted thither a channel from the Nile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu

Among the items recently found were hundreds of fragments of papyri. Some of these were inked with records that were the logbooks of a group of some 40 workers who were crew on a boat during the reign of Pharaoh Khufu. They record the transport of limestone blocks along the Nile River and then through a series of water-filled basins, using terms such as “Khufu’s Lake”. At the base of the pyramids, workers unloaded the rock to cover the outer layer of the Great Pyramid, then, the boat crew would head back to a quarry for another load of rock.

https://roseannechambers.com/ancient-boats-and-enormous-blocks/

I am not sure they found any boats other than the funerary ones, but they seem pretty comparable.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

There's a lot of evidence to show that a small team of skilled craftsmen could have used water channels and animal skin floaters to lift the blocks into place.

Here's a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1y8N0ePuF8

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

"Give me a place to stand, and a lever long enough, and I will move the world,"

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

A couple years ago my chemistry teacher told my class that the Egyptians had really advanced technology (technology even more advanced than our own) thousands of years ago but it all got lost because they started a nuclear war

Edit: she told us that the evidence was that there were smartphone paintings

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Sounds like he was sneaking sniffs in the flammable cabinet a little too often.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Pfff I'm sorry but no, it was the cats.

You see cats have powers similar to Telekinesis. Why do you think they choose rivers surrounded by deserts to start the first civilizations. Sandboxes everywhere they please.

But one dark day the Faraó Ramses forgot to refil the food pile because and I quote "but it still had food from yesterday".

This one mistake doomed humanity to the eternal silence treatment.

(and that's why his tomb sucked, his was the first that humans actually had to build)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I do really enjoy the theory that the great pyramids are actually industrial reactant chambers.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago

“Give me a place to stand, and a lever long enough, and I will move the world. ”

  • Archimedes
[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

Friendly reminder the Mayans had a highway

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually I was listening to a podcast that explains this. They didn't have levers yet. They did have other devices but no lever.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But others have levers

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I know how they're built because I watch Witual. Internal ramp theory babeeee!

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

The great pyramid of Giza weighs around 6 million tons https://weightofstuff.com/how-much-does-the-pyramid-of-giza-weigh/

An average human can apparently develop about 200N https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergonomics/push1.html

Meaning that an average human would need a lever about 3×10^8 m long (considering a 1 metre load arm) to move the pyramid.

Do you find this credible?

ETA: some people think I'm serious. This is quite the flabbergast.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say i don't think they found the pyramid whole and moved the entire thing. I think they took small pieces, possibly block shaped and moved those one at a time

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

I would never have thought of that! But I still don't understand how these satanic Duplo work, so who am I to judge

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Don't worry I got what you were putting down. People can be very reactionary with their downvotes here, if your joke is too subtle it can fly over their heads.

It made me smirk! For my reference, how many zeros is that (I'm shit at maths but want to try and imagine such a long lever protruding into deep space)?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ancient alien theory is extremely racist and I am shocked people don't reject it on those grounds alone.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Top text, they built it

Bottom text, aliens built it

Peter Griffin race meme

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nah, we all know the Great Pyramids were part of the “Giza Mass Autism Array” fired during the Finno-Korean Hyperwar. RIP Finnish social skills

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

were part of the “Giza Mass Autism Array”

*will be part of

remember that the Finno-Korean Hyperwar is going to have been the war where we first learn how to manipulate chronodirectionality.

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