this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
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China Installed More Solar Panels Last Year Than the U.S. Has in Total::China installed more new solar capacity last year than the total amount ever installed in any other country.

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[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 158 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Currently seeing the US climate narrative shift from "why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when China won't? >:(" to "why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when Senegal won't? >:(" Can't wait for 20 years from now when we're balls deep in climate disasters, Senegal gets its shit together, and the US narrative moves to ~~honduras~~ ~~El Salvador~~ ~~Uganda~~ comparing itself to the Philippines.

Holy crap you guys, it turns out that the narrative that the developing world is going to burn an ass-ton of fossil fuels is a lot weaker than I thought. It looks like there's a fuckton of equatorial and global south countries with renewables/hydro power, Honduras is even adding Geothermal. God damn it, USA, get off your ass and fix your shit already.

[–] rusticus@lemm.ee 55 points 1 year ago (7 children)

We've moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020. Thanks to Biden policies. Even though according to reddit he's an incontinent dementia patient.

[–] pedalmore@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Source? I haven't seen final numbers for 2023 from EIA yet, but 2022 was like 22%. The growth is accelerating as economics change, and in large part the IRA (thanks Biden), but it's not 40%. I'm speaking of electricity production, but I can't think of a reasonable metric that's anywhere near 40% nationally. Let's try to stick to reality here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_States

[–] rusticus@lemm.ee 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] pedalmore@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You said renewables are 40%, which is wrong. Then you sourced articles showing that carbon free sources are 40%, which includes nuclear. Nobody calls nuclear "renewable", so I suggest getting your language straight so as not to confuse.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago

to be fair nuclear nuclear is much much better than keeping up with all that fossil fuel burning.

in fact id rather see (properly maintained!!!) nuclear than waiting until actual renewables can cover all of the world's demand.

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[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

China needs a fuckload of power, they are building more of everything including coal. The only reason they aren't building more coal is people like seeing out their windows.

The US is actually winding down coal use. China is still expanding, this is a problem. The fact China also added a ton of solar panels is a nice distraction.

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (8 children)

I seem to have been working on old info, as China has decommissioned 70 GW of coal plants, but it looks like they also just approved a whole lot more of them.

From Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/chinas-coal-country-full-steam-ahead-with-new-power-plants-despite-climate-2023-11-30/#:~:text=After%202025%2C%20it%20is%20unclear,and%20are%20phasing%20out%20plants.

In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.

Well, shit.

Anyway, I'm glad for the solar and nuclear capacity (LOTS of it!) that China's been building. I'm glad to hear that we are spinning down coal capacity, but I'd be interested to learn what we're replacing it with. It seems like natural gas is all the rage these days, and that still produces GHG emissions.

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[–] redcalcium@lemmy.institute 12 points 1 year ago

I'm not so sure about that. China is about to ramp up solar even more. They build a lot of solar and battery-related factories and secured mining rights for solar and battery raw elements in Asia and Africa in the past few years, sometimes to the point of fighting with the displaced locals (China tend to bring their own workers from mainland instead of employing local workers).

[–] redcalcium@lemmy.institute 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Same with EVs. After BYD became the largest EV manufacturer, suddenly EV is not cool anymore. Maybe if car manufacturers focus on making EV affordable instead of cramming more and more luxury features, maybe EV sales in US won't dwindle.

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[–] NickwithaC@lemmy.world 80 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Good news for one of the planet's most polluting countries.

[–] Nesola@lemmy.world 104 points 1 year ago (8 children)

That is producing for the rest of the world and especially for the west. It’s hypocritical to blame china while buying stuff that had to be cheaper and cheaper.

[–] Rampsquatch@sh.itjust.works 46 points 1 year ago (6 children)

The average consumer doesn't actually have a choice in the matter. Unless you are wealthy enough to purchase only local artisan made goods near everything you can afford is made in China or made in China adjacent.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 49 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

That's not really the point. The point is their emissions will be higher because they're producing all the stuff everyone else purchases. The production is what creates pollution. If they stopped producing then other countries would and they would increase their pollution.

It's not saying don't buy products from China. It's saying China polluted because things are bought from them. The pollution would be wherever production is taking place.

[–] Nesola@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

That is exactly my point. Thanks for elaborating it!

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You could simply not purchase as much crap. Half of the factories that supply the West's goods would go out of business if people stopped buying new phones and shitty plastics every full moon.

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[–] Gigan@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think that absolves China of any blame. They're still choosing to produce cheap goods at the expense of the planet, because it's good business for them too.

[–] essteeyou@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (15 children)

If not them then it'd be someone else. Clearly they're starting to take polluting seriously.

If you look at CO2 emissions per capita then China is actually doing better than countries like Canada, the US, and Singapore. Assuming I haven't completely misread that table.

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[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Only way many western countries were able to slow their rise in CO2 emissions. Despite outsourcing their emissions to China, the US still emits twice the CO2 per capita compared with China.

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago (10 children)

And why are they one of the most polluting countries?

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[–] angrymouse@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually they are poluting for you to buy your stuff cheaper, who is responsible for the polution of your stuff? Dowa not make any sense to blame them for factories that the west choosed to put there.

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[–] Altofaltception@lemmy.world 66 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There's a reason the US is targeting China from various fronts (trade restrictions, sanctions, etc.). China is a powerhouse and the US is terrified of being left behind.

[–] sir_reginald@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I don't get why you're getting dowvoted. I guess there are a lot of Americans over here. But your statement is absolutely true. The US attempts at restricting China's access to various technologies only make sense if they feel threatened by them.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] wikibot@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

The Thucydides Trap, or Thucydides' Trap, is a term popularized by American political scientist Graham T. Allison to describe an apparent tendency towards war when an emerging power threatens to displace an existing great power as a regional or international hegemon. The term exploded in popularity in 2015 and primarily applies to analysis of China–United States relations. Supporting the thesis, Allison led a study at Harvard University's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs which found that, among a sample of 16 historical instances of an emerging power rivaling a ruling power, 12 ended in war. That study, however, has come under considerable criticism, and scholarly opinion on the value of the Thucydides Trap concept—particularly as it relates to a potential military conflict between the United States and China—remains divided.

^to^ ^opt^ ^out^^,^ ^pm^ ^me^ ^'optout'.^ ^article^ ^|^ ^about^

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[–] psychothumbs@lemmy.world 49 points 1 year ago

Fantastic. Remember guys, we're all on the same side on this one. This should be a signal for the US to get its ass in gear to do the same, but it's not like China expanding its renewable energy capacity is anything but great for everyone.

[–] Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 37 points 1 year ago

Good for them

[–] EmergMemeHologram@startrek.website 31 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Oh my God, that's awful!

I hope the US responds by installing more solar panels this year than China ever has!

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[–] kawa@reddeet.com 30 points 1 year ago (6 children)

And opened more coal plants too lol, don't be quick in praising the CCP, there's always something shady in the background...

[–] Olhonestjim@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (26 children)

And systematically genociding their minorities too. Let's never forget that.

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[–] frezik@midwest.social 10 points 1 year ago

China's CO2 output is expected to fall in the coming year, and for structural reasons, stay that way for years to come.

https://energyandcleanair.org/analysis-chinas-emissions-set-to-fall-in-2024-after-record-growth-in-clean-energy/

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[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 year ago

Well, someone has to make use of renewable energy I guess lol

[–] PanArab@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

The rise of China is democratizing access to technology. My home government, supposedly a longtime partner of the US even doing its dirty work in Yemen, has struggled for years to get any tech transfer deal with the US, too many hoops to jump through. But were able to get many tech transfers from China recently. It was a major win and that technology includes solar panel manufacturing.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Too many hoops, like stop funding the terrorist groups that attacked The US on 9/11? Yeah, I can see how MBS might have some trust issues coming from The US.

[–] PanArab@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Funny you accuse the Saudi government of what was an inside-job. The Saudi government exiled Bin Laden in the 1990s, revoking his citizenship, while the US was still working with him. Either way we don’t need it from you. China is making you irrelevant. You can’t withhold technology to bully the rest of the world. You can go pound sand.

Also funny coming from a nation where a genocidal maniac is the lesser evil, someone who is bypassing Congress to send weapons to Israel and bomb Yemen. You keep your electoralism, and I am keeping our free healthcare, free universities and high speed rail.

FYI, the US is guilty of multiple war crimes in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. They are guilty right now of war crimes in Palestine. It is really tiring how you pretend to be the good guys. You are Homelander not Superman, and you are no longer the only player in town.

[–] Sarmyth@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Bro... the current leadership of China committed genocide on their own soil and have been attempting to expand their borders for decades.

China is not a good partner for playing the lesser of 2 evils game. You'd be at it all day with the whataboutism.

[–] PanArab@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Bro the US wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for genocide and slavery. The US right now occupies oil fields in Iraq and Syria and is stealing the oil. The US right now is sending weapons to Israel to massacre Palestinians. No one cares about your virtue signaling.

China is a much lesser evil. They don’t try to push us to normalize with genocidal maniacs (Zionist usurpers) as a precondition for even the most basic of technologies.

If you think China is so bad just compare the policing of Hong Kong protests with the policing of George Floyd protests. The emperor has no clothes.

FYI: the US is also expanding https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-22/us-claims-huge-chunk-of-seabed-amid-strategic-push-for-resources and it is also helping Israel annex Syrian and Palestinian lands.

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[–] ChihuahuaOfDoom@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Bigger country does things bigger, more at 11.

[–] Poutinetown@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

True, now I expect Canada to install more solar panels than China has in total.

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[–] Fades@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You can thank conservatives for that. They are beholden to fossil fuel interests so they attack everything else whether it be solar energy or ev

[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

“JESUS WOULDN’TVE INSTALLED SOLAR PANELS!!11!1!1”

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

china also has more population than any other country

[–] hark@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

US total wealth: 139+ trillion (in USD)

China total wealth: 84+ trillion (in USD)

It's not a function of population. It's a function of wealth and the will to use that wealth to invest in clean energy. The US has entrenched interests in keeping the oil flowing. China isn't investing in clean energy for altruism, they do it because they don't have rich reserves of oil, but at least they're doing the right thing, even if it's not necessarily for the right reasons.

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[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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