this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2024
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[–] zkfcfbzr@lemmy.world 162 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This seems like a strict improvement over the old situation, in a way that should be directly felt by lots and lots of people every single day.

I don't get the urge to take a needlessly cynical take on news like this. Yes, the system is still flawed, but yes, it's better than it was before. Take the win and move on to the next reform.

[–] tate@lemmy.sdf.org 50 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Absolutely this. If anything is going to change, we're going to hear about those changes like this. If the reaction is always "fuck you -ACAB!" the change won't work.

I actually strongly feel that ACAB, but I'd like to live in a society that could have fair and just policing, not one without police.

[–] Neato@ttrpg.network 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes. We need police in a society, as a force to prevent and stop crime. But what we have now across the US as police are shit. We need them to be rebuilt from the ground up as community policing with a focus on protecting people, not just enforcing violations.

ACAB makes sense with the system we have. But I kinda doubt we're going to get many tear down-rebuild efforts. Our best bet is to focus on stuff like this: institutional change in huge areas that change how police think and operate.

[–] vonbaronhans@midwest.social 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Any system of government will require some way to handle unlawful/harmful conduct, yeah. It's just a matter of making it not complete shit.

No idea if it would work in practice, but I once heard an idea where policing is a (mandatory?) duty for all citizens, but in regular rotation. Meaning, at any given time, some % of the population is now cops, and once your turn is up you're back to a regular person with no enforcement obligations or privileges. No idea if that would work in practice, but it would give people real consequences for being a shit cop. Nobody could just be a terrible cop in perpetuity.

[–] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just make working in retail a mandatory service. That would fix society in a few years.

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[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 86 points 1 year ago

"Do you know why I pulled you over?"

"Because you got straight C's in high school."

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 56 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I don't see how this is transparency. Either way, the cop can just lie.

I mean this is nonsense:

California’s new law promotes these elements of procedural justice. During a traffic stop, for example, an officer who immediately shares the reason for the stop is being transparent. This allows the motorist to directly engage with the legitimate, legal reason for the stop rather than feel as if they are being interrogated for no reason or an ulterior motive. This more respectful form of communication makes police officers more accountable to those they wield power over.

If a cop pulls a black guy over for 'speeding,' it's still the cop's word against theirs. The only difference now is that the cop doesn't have to make the black guy guess which lie the cop is going to use.

[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If a cop pulls a car over for speeding, and the motorist says "because I ran a stop sign", the cop can now give two tickets. Removing the fishing question still makes the driver's situation better.

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[–] APassenger@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

That and the dash cam.

If you're worried enough about police integrity, have a dash cam and have it on. I've seen videos (rare) where the cop lied about speed and the dash cam was used to knock it down.

Even cheap ones could be used to figure out speed based on landmarks and time stamps. GPS speed would be more conclusive, though.

For that scenario all you'd have to do is pay a lawyer to file a motion of discovery, and the charges will almost certainly be dropped. You could probably talk a paralegal to do it for cheap, or your jurisdiction might allow you to file it yourself.

It costs more to gather the evidence than they'll get from the fine.

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[–] Che_Donkey@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

LAPD & Sherrif deputies being held accountable...

I have a small doubt

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[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The only correct answer is along the lines of “I couldn’t fathom!” Don’t talk to cops. They aren’t your friends.

[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've always just said "it's because you think I'm sexy and want my number." But in retrospect, your approach is probably better.

[–] TommySalami@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure "did we have a moment?" got me out of a minor ticket once.

"No, but I sure am glad you did" with a quick wink and smile might get you their number lol.

[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Is it because of my ligma?"

[–] meco03211@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nah. It probably smells like a dikfore.

[–] EatATaco@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I was out at a bar the other night with a bunch of fellow dads. I mentioned how I just got my son with the dikfore joke, figuring everyone knew what I was talking about.

One guy is like "I havent heard that one" and it was like time stood still. I was once again a middle school boy about to drop an embarrassment bomb onto someone, from which they would never recover. Everyone else seemed to sense it in the air because they all went silent too.

"You don't know the dikfore?"

We all know what comes next, and he realized what he had walked into the second it came out of his mouth. We all started cracking up, thinking it had been 30 years since the last time we were able to get a peer with that joke.

He still hasn't lived it down. He never will, as long as I'm still breathing.

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[–] cmhickman358@thelemmy.club 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Was it because my vehicle exceeded the weight limit with all of this updog I'm transporting?

[–] bronzle@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] yuriy@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)
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[–] TengoDosVacas@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Because you're avoiding a school shooting?"

[–] sxan@midwest.social 4 points 1 year ago

Because you already have donuts in the patrol car?

Because the grade-school girls are in class?

Because you need to fill your quota?

[–] Cold_Brew_Enema@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Yeah this was outdated. They should be informing you why they pulled you over.

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[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Now now folks, as long as the lovely police officers are still able to either plant, or pretend to find illegal drugs in the victim’s uh… criminals car so they can arrest them randomly, then everyone will be happy, yes?

[–] bhmnscmm@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Just as long as the police can still steal any property and call it civil forfeiture.

[–] BigBenis@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

IANAL and it's best to know and understand the laws of the state that you're in. But in general you're under no obligation to answer any questions a cop has for you and you're not being rude or difficult by simply saying nothing at all. If a cop actually wants to help you they can do so by promptly giving you a citation and letting you go on about your day, not by trying to pry on your personal opinions or activities.

[–] verdantbanana@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

terry stop

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

yes you are under obligation to answer any questions for whatever reason no matter the state

and to further exacerbate the situation states are now doing their own thing more than ever and Biden is failing on the campaign promise for police reform

[–] Furbag@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

yes you are under obligation to answer any questions for whatever reason no matter the state

You need to have brain damage to believe this is true. Police can detain you for whatever reason they might have, and refusing to answer them might cause them to place you under arrest, but you are not obligated to answer questions while you are under detention or arrest.

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[–] Plavatos@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

Sorry, that's arguably some bad advice. The most well known counterpoint is there in your Miranda Rights: you have the right to remain silent. That right exists under the 5th as the other comment mentions.

This applies to a traffic stop for most everything but name, address, and the required documents (insurance, driver's license). As to whether you have to sign a ticket, I can't say.

And of course this video is gold, watch it yearly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

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[–] AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Even if the legislation falls short of the ambitions of its supporters, however, it does hold promise for furthering community trust in police by promoting what’s known as procedural justice. In simple terms, procedural justice is the perception of fairness in interactions with authority such as traffic stops.

So, not actual fairness?

[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean, they said right there that's in simple terms.

https://law.yale.edu/justice-collaboratory/procedural-justice

It needs to not only be fair, but appear fair.

If you're speeding, and you get pulled over, and the cop acts confrontational and then gives you a ticket, it doesn't appear fair.
If you're speeding, and you get pulled over, and the cop says they pulled you over for speeding, asks if you had a good reason to be going that speed, and then gives you a ticket when you don't, that appears fair, as well as being fair. The cop acted impartially, gave you a chance to explain yourself, and the outcome matched what you actually did.

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[–] NABDad@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Of course, this also means smart-asses can't respond with, "What, don't you know?"

"I don't answer questions".

[–] eran_morad@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

“Sorry, officer, I know my schlong was dangling out the window, it’s hard to keep it wrapped around my thigh while I’m driving.”

[–] Liz@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago

"I would prefer if you just told me."

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