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Any judge who makes a ruling based on their personal beliefs rather than on factual evidence is not truly acting as a judge, but rather as a petulant child determined to force everyone else to do things their way. Allowing even a single ruling of law to be based on personal beliefs, whether religious or otherwise, reduces the entire court system to nothing more than a mockery of legal justice.
You just described most of the major SCOTUS rulings over the last couple of decades, at least.
A judge can’t make rulings solely based on facts, because facts cannot provide a foundation for ethics. Facts can only tell you the way things are, not the way they should be. Rulings should be informed by facts and based on the values of society as a whole.
I agree that they shouldn’t be based on the judge’s personal beliefs. I suppose our judicial system kind of makes this inevitable, though…
IANAL, but I dare guess judges do need beliefs. In the beginning, people thought Black people were not humans, and so equality of people in constitution did not apply. I might be factually wrong on this, but let's assume it. To overcome this, some judges had to abandon their racism and understand black people are people.
And while some areas of human issues can be discussed scientifically, like racism being completely wrong, some are difficult.
And if science can't overcome an unjust law today, judges have to listen to their heart and do the right thing. Probably the left thing these days, though...
It seems like you just negated your own point though? If the justices believe black people do not have rights, and make rulings based on that, then they have ignored the letter of the law. On the other hand, ruling in favor of black people's rights is actually making a judgement that follows the constitution (which makes no mention of race, religion, sexual preference, or anything else). Saying that all people are equal does not just apply to the people that you personally find equal, it means ALL. Making a judgement that same-sex couples have the same rights to marriage does not mean that a judge overcame their bigotry, it simply means that a judge ruled in favor of the letter of the law and did not let their personal feelings get in the way -- they dd the job they were hired for rather than becoming a vindictive dictator.
I noticed. What I wanted to say was it can become a battle between the correct belief and the wrong belief. Especially if the law itself is interpreted wrongly and scientific evidence is difficult to acquire (which sometimes is).
It's not a matter of science vs belief, it's a matter of law versus dogma.
Law is a consensus that, at least in a democracy, aims to set some rule and the consequences of it in advance so that whenever a case applies it is at least relatively predictable and applied equally in each case.
If you pass judgement based on the things you like, or in the religious beliefs you profess you're not following the law, your imparting dogma. Imposing it, in fact, over others.
You can absolutely make unjust laws, but at least those are the result of a process. In a democracy you can at least understands what steps lead to rectifying an unjust law.
If a person with power decides they don't like you and they apply that belief inconsistently, irrationally and without following consistent rules there is no recourse or path for society to correct itself (beyond violent revolt, presumably).
Judges don't need to listen to their heart. Judges need to apply laws generated in a functional system that captures the will of an informed people in a predictable, equitable manner. Judges ruling based on personal beliefs, whether you agree with them or not, are a tyranical manifestation and a very scary thing.
I'm from Japan. They don't even have judges as corrupt as SCOTUS and still don't allow same sex marriage because the ruling party is conservative. Well, the court ruled it's unconstitutional, but we learned that a law in this country can stay unconstitutional if the government ignores the situation. And apparently 90% of the people (at least on the internet) support that because they are conservative.
Makes me realize how broken my country is. It doesn't even count as corruption because it's lawful. Fucking hell...
They're not wrong, but the title feels sensationalized. Alito and Thomas have talked about Obergefell in a half dozen rulings since Roe v. Wade (including Roe v. Wade) and none of this information is new. They aren't 'preparing' so much as they have been prepared, for some time now.
Maybe they do. If nothing else, that'll give the police an excuse to bust out all of their military surplus armaments for a play date.
This is what I'm scared of. I don't want to sit at home and do nothing, but whenever there are riots, it feels like people get killed and the causes they died for are just buried in the news cycle.
I might be misunderstanding but I thought legislation was passed and signed to protect same sex marriage at a federal level? https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/biden-set-sign-sex-marriage-bill-white-house-ceremony-rcna61423
The law will not, however, require states to issue marriage licenses contrary to state laws.
That legislation ensures the federal government recognizes it and requires states to recognize marriages from other states. It does not prevent a state from banning it within that state. (Really shitty that NBC doesn’t link to the actual text so people can read it themselves)
If you read the article it does not mean states will have to issue licenses to same sex couples in their own state, just, from my understanding, honor ones issued in states where it is legal (which while Obergefell stands is all of them). It is also important to note that the Supreme Court had the power to overturn legislation if it deems it unconditional, so, while it would be hard for them to outright overturn this bill using the constitution, since a state cannot hold religious preference due to seperation of church and state, it cannot be ruled out entirely. I feel it is likely they rule in favor of an individual, such as a county clerk, not having to issue a marriage license if it "goes against their religious beliefs", which could basically mean a ban for large areas of some states with highly religious conservatives.
I keep saying we gotta fight these laws through the power of malicious compliance.
Get a job as a clerk with the department of marriages. Say "I'm an atheist, and I don't believe in marriage as in my mind it has a religious character." Sue the state for 10 years salary for firing you.
It's the same as those Florida laws. Sue your kids' school for referring to your child with a gendered pronoun. Sue the library for stocking the Bible. Establish precedent that these laws go both ways. It's the same stuff the Satanic Temple has been doing for years.
Could this failed state just fail like any other failed state?
Question because my reading comprehension is bad: would this kill same-sex marriage nationwide, or would it just allow red states to say they won't recognize it? Not to say the latter isn't bad, I'm just curious if this would fuck over my ability to even get married in, say, Washington or Oregon.
Yeah, it essentially makes it a state issue, and each state can ban, or not, and choose to recognize marriages from other states, or not. So if you got married in Washington that might allow same-sex marriage and respect marriages from other states, and then you move to e.g. Tennessee that banned it and didn't recognize out of state marriages, your marriage essentially wouldn't exist there. I also imagine for the case of emergencies and whatnot, if you were traveling through such a state, you wouldn't be recognized as spouses, making it literally a life or death issue for travel.
It's very, very bad.
Holy shit, I didn't draw up the situation of travelling while married as a problem but you're absolutely right. It's already getting extremely tricky to figure out what places are OK or no-go for trans and NB people, this is just going to make things so much more fucking worse.
Atlanta for example is a massive air travel hub. What if Georgia doesn't uphold same-sex marriage? What about international travellers who are married abroad?
JFC. These idiots.
Shows how sheltered I am, but it never occurred to be that same-sex couples from other countries might have trouble traveling in the US because of this. I just thought of this as an American problem.
That said, I started boycotting tourism to the United States in the Bush administration and haven't been back since. My passport even expired over a decade ago.
What an excellent scheme to keep talents away from entering the red states for a job.
It sounds odd but that’s the point. Educated voters vote democrat.
Current federal law requires states to recognize all marriages, including same-sex marriages, from other states but does not require them to issue licenses within their state. The previous Supreme Court had determined the constitution required states to do so, but that could be overturned. They could also decide the federal law is unconstitutional, but that is less likely.
Maybe even that depends on the judges.
“Making matters worse, if Trump is elected this year he could veto any congressional attempt to reverse such a disastrous ruling of the Court by passing a law guaranteeing same sex marriage rights.”
Call me crazy and naive but there is a small part of me that thinks the democrats can peel off enough republicans to make that happen. There are a lot of pink districts/states with GOP in their seats that would instantly lose their next election if they did that.
LMAO no. They absolutely cannot. The Repubs have basically deadlocked Congress now in their ideological war. Dems won't get any Repubs to join. But it's moot because Dems won't even bother. Even if they had a supermajority trifecta, they'd still kowtow and refuse to pass a bill without bipartisan support (like they always do). And we even have examples already. Congress knew for over a month that Roe was about to fall and did literally nothing to stop it. And in the time since, Dems haven't said a single word about it or done anything to codify reproductive rights at the federal level.
The dems haven't had a supermajority trifecta in over a decade and even that was just a few months and included a few independents. They passed massive legislation in this short time too. So it's time to get over it and learn how our government has worked at every other moment in time.
For all of our sakes I hope you're right.
Then again, underestimating regressive politicians leaves us with a massive blind spot. You can bet they're counting on that while they lie to literally anyone who will listen about how "evil" progressives are.
Sometimes I wonder if POTUS could declare national emergency due to an unhinged SCOTUS.
Not saying they won't do what the title suggests but I feel like the article itself takes a pretty big leap from the quotes used to the headline. Alito's comments seem to be more focused on governmental discrimination based on religious beliefs than on attacking the legality of same sex marriage
No way this wouldn't lead to at least a few attempts on a Supreme Justice's life
Nah, that's rather what right wingers do.
If it really did, it would have happened by now.