this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024
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[–] heavy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago
[–] Zink@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

I have always considered myself an engineer because I’m part of a multidisciplinary engineering organization designing a physical product that has embedded software. And “engineer” is the word at the end of my degrees, I guess.

But if somebody called me by any of those terms in the OP I would answer. And if somebody who works on an app or a video game calls themselves an engineer, it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow.

My only conclusion is that we here, who spend our days specifying exactly what we want computers to do, are not so great specifying ourselves exactly.

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

data scientist

code monkey

alchemist

[–] ed_cock@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I hear the voice of the machine spirit!

[–] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago
[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

Deputy assistant senior vice president software engineering manager

[–] db2@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Computer code program development engineer, Esq.

[–] Restaldt@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Code whisperer

(Until i have to deal with legacy code. Then im usually screaming obscenities)

[–] joyjoy@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] d41@startrek.website 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have the words "software engineer" in my job title but I hate it.

We aren't engineers, we're a bunch of undisciplined hackers, engineers have standards and ethics.

Programmer is my preferred term, or software developer.

Code monkey is also acceptable.

[–] rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Depends. I've studied for my engineering title, I have standards and ethics. Requirements, specification, design, architecture, programming, testing, integration, delivery, everything is part of my job. If you are a programmer, you only do programming.

[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, that's bullshit.

Look at the state of software in the world. Even for Boeing standards, most software is abysmal. You can have personal standards all you want, if business daddy wants to deliver untested crap, I might object, but I can't stop it and it's usually not a hill I would want to die on.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I might object, but I can’t stop it

I'd argue that if you seriously consider yourself a software engineer, and you take the "engineer" part seriously, you should be quitting and blowing the whistle if that happens. If you just go along with it, then sure, you're not an engineer.

[–] ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago

Dude, you're living in fantasy land if you're being serious. Engineers build all types of shoddy and dangerous crap just because they're being paid to do it. Most of weapons manufacturing is mech eng. Almost no one is gonna quit their job over some ethical dispute, even if it's costing lives.

[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Sure, and go where else exactly?

The entire industry works on shipping duct taped products.

I do have my standards, but there's a point at which you have to say "it's good enough". If someone's at risk of dying or being harmed, yeah, that's a real problem. If the application keeps crashing and loses the business money, that's not my problem, I can only notify my superiors about my concerns.

[–] Forester@yiffit.net 0 points 1 year ago

Sorcerer of servers

[–] shasta@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think typically A, B, C, and F are acceptable to most people. I certainly wouldn't mind any of those descriptions. D feels antiquated. E is too broad. G just sounds like a hobbyist.

[–] labsin@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

About D, you could also be programming robots, PLC's or thermostats 🤷‍♂️

[–] shasta@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah but the programming is done on a computer and then uploaded to that device. It's not specific enough of a term anymore. That's why it feels antiquated. Back in the 80s, most people didn't know enough about computers to know there were differences in different types of programming, and there were fewer types then too. These days you still don't need to be too specific unless you're discussing your role with someone else in the industry but still, if you just say you're a programmer now, pretty much everyone will know you mean it's computer programming.

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'm a Senior Software Engineer, outside of countries where engineer is a protected title. I'm also a Beep-Boop Technician, Specialized Generalist (not Full-Stack since I have mostly succeeded in avoiding JS, until this afternoon), Problem Fixer, Technical Diplomat, Cat Herder (sometimes a tech lead), and The-Mean-Guy-That-Rejects-Commits-When-There-Are-API-Calls-Made-Without-TLS-Encryption-And-Hardcoded-Secrets (infosec likes me but always seems genuinely confused at a dev not fighting them).

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[–] waz@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I usually say "I'm a computer toucher" or "computer programmer" if I don't want to talk about what I do. If I want to flex some nerd cred, and/or boast a little, I'll usually say "I work with machine automation" or "robotics". It tends to get a more curious response and I can talk about some of the weird stuff I've helped make.

[–] Gork@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I usually say "I'm a computer toucher"

That sounds kinky

[–] dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I got told the difference between a software developer and an engineer is that an engineer factors in a products lifecycle and scalability and communicates this to their team and client

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[–] MonkCanatella@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ummm, keyboard jockey??? Code monkey??? can we get some respect here?

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[–] humbletightband@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I only want to be called darling. Or a filthy worm, depending on the situation

Filthy darling

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago

Honestly, the longer I work in tech, the less confidence I have in anyone's title. Even searching for a job, different companies have different ideas of what, pretty much everything is....

I'm more on the side of IT support (sysadmin/netadmim/systems engineer/network engineer/second/third level support/engineer/whatever tf)... And even looking for a job for myself, it's a nightmare... Even mundane details about the job are messed up. I saw a posting for a "remote support technician", by their definition, this was "remote" as in, not from an office. The job was on-site support for remote sites. I don't even think it was an IT position, more like mechanical maintenance IIRC. So you were "remote" aka, not at their office, doing support (for something not electronic), as a "technician".

It's bullshit all the way down.

When I was last looking for a job someone commented that I had "only" applied to x positions in y weeks, when their search for (some vague title related to my usual employment) had z search results, where z was more than 10 times x. I didn't bother replying but I couldn't help but think, did you look at any of those postings? I literally had a search filter for jobs that was "CCNA" (Cisco certified) and I literally had administrative assistant positions coming up.... Those are little better than secretarial jobs. I know because I clicked on it because maybe, just maybe they meant an assistant to the systems administrator, but no, it was exactly what it said on the tin.

This is my frustration with IT. There are zero standards for what a job is. Developer? Is it software or something related to construction? Engineer? Are you examining the structure of something or building out IT solutions? Admin? Office admin? Systems admin? Department admin? There's too many "admin" related jobs.... "Support"? Supporting what exactly? Am I programming switchports, or is this some other kind of bullshit support.

That's not even getting into all the actual IT jobs that are clearly out in left field. Sysadmin jobs that require years of experience with an application that's extremely specific to one industry; an application you could learn likely in a matter of days, which isn't very complicated, but your resume goes in a bin if you don't have some very specific certification and a number of years of experience with the related app... I know that because I've applied to such positions and didn't even get a courtesy email telling me to pound sand.

Which takes me to another point, you don't get rejected. You get ghosted. They don't want you? Fine, tell me that. You don't even have to give me a reason, just some copy pasta about pursuing other candidates. That way I will know to not expect anything further, and keep trying. I mean, I'm going to keep trying no matter what, but still...

The whole job market is a hellscape.

Then, I can turn my attention to the pointless titles people have, which often don't mean shit outside of your specific workplace. "Lead customer success technician" ... Ok, wtf is that? What does any of that mean? Are you technical in the sense of working with information technology? Or is it one of the DOZENS of other "technical" things? Everyone is a technician and everyone is an engineer now. Those terms used to mean something. Now they're just keywords to blast your resume with to try to match some AI filter so you can get a call. If you don't play the game, your left behind.

I feel bad for all the professional engineers out there who hold degrees in real engineering. Now anyone, everyone and their mother is calling themselves some kind of engineer. It's all word salad and I hate it.

[–] namelivia@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] bitchkat@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Gross. IT to me is a support role, not the reason for the company's existence.

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If they have a degree in engineering, then they are an engineer.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, it’s weird to me as an engineer that when I’m on Lemmy people use that word to mean programmer. Nah, I work in a factory and had to learn thermodynamics

[–] EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It’s always been weird to me as someone who isn’t an engineer in degree or title why those with degrees in engineering think people shouldn’t use an accurately descriptive word like engineer when it’s perfectly appropriate just because it’s a little to close to the title of their licensed profession.

Engineer is a verb, to devise or contrive something. Simply, to design a construct. A programmer by definition engineers a program and is therefore by the rules of the English language, an engineer.

They may not be a Licensed Professional Engineer, but an Engineer they remain.

[–] Solemarc@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know where "software engineer" started but in Australia engineers have to study for years and then do a minimum amount of study every year to keep their license. Which we don't have to do. I've always been weirded out by Software Engineer even though it seems to be becoming more common.

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