this post was submitted on 05 Feb 2025
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Hey does Pepperidge farms remember all the fucking morons on Lemmy urging not to vote for Harris because she was allegedly complicit in genocide? I sure as shit do.
Know what's gonna be objectively worse, 100% regardless of the veracity those allegations? The reality that they helped forge instead.
I still can't get over how they were essentially presented with a simplified version of the trolley problem and chose to not pull the lever.
By their own narrative that "the democrats are complicit in a genocide in Gaza", they were aware that Palestinians were metaphorically tied to both tracks, yet decided to not pull the lever when America itself and every marginalized person living within was also on the track the trolley barreled towards.
I suspected that many of the accounts were Russian plants or Trump supporters trying to divide the Democrat vote. Most of the time when I checked account age they were made either that day or the day before.
I know that Lemmy is new and all but still was sus.
I haven't gone back to accounts to see if they are still active. I suspect that they aren't.
I suspect that what we saw here on lemmy were actual people who had been indoctrinated elsewhere.
Lemmy isn't really big enough to be a target for bots and so on.
Bots are cheap to write. That's naive to think there wasn't a disinformation war going on with bots being on the forefront of it.
Calling it simplified does a disservice of the real world impacts of the "trolley" - especially since unlike a thought experiment - this trolley problem is physically constructed by people to achieve imperialistic goals - so expending energy blaming random lemmings for this - instead of figuring out who built, maintains and presents the trolley as the only option and how to dismantle it seems useless.
I believe we should avoid infighting and actually organize to do something so we don't have to choose if we pull the lever or not every 4 years (if there even is another election..)
I find it scary how easily people where fine with having genocide on both sides of the ticket.
Not having a choice and being fine with with the choice you have are drastically different situations, and it's concerning how many people are incapable of unwilling to tell the difference between the two.
We are enjoying the fruits of constantly lowering our moral standards. We see more anger towards those who where critical of the genocide than those who needlessly insisted on perpetuating it.
That anger is deserved, did you read the image in this post?
No sane people were fine with it, but sane people have to live in the real world and not believe some fucking fantasy that there was another option at the time.
The democrats did have another option at the time.
Why the fuck did the democrats leave Palestinians to their tracks?
This didn't have to be a difficult problem where we're forced to vote for genocide. The only people at fault for the democrats doing something as wildly unpopular as genocide, silencing anyone who said "You need to stop this if you want to win", and reaping the effects of that policy being unpopular are the democrats.
It's almost like single-issue voters aren't very good at logic problems…
The trolley problem is not a logic problem JFC. Every one of you gets an F in philosophy 101.
The point was to pressure the Dems into giving up on genocide. You wanna talk about "pepperidge farm remembers", I got one for ya
Remember when the Dems thought they could win while actively telling people who were anti genocide to go fuck themselves?
Hey, what's weirder? Not voting for someone committing genocide, or being unwilling to stop committing a genocide even if it costs you the election?
How does it feel that the only thing that Harris had to do was say "I will stop weapons to Israel" and she would of won?
You can't keep blaming the voters when the strategy was at fault. They knew they would lose votes. They thought they could court the centrists and liberal Republicans to make up for it. They were so fucking wrong. And somehow it's not their own fault for having the worst campaign strategy known to man.
Like, Christ. Y'all ain't ever gonna stop trying to blame leftists. You'll be up against the wall with leftists fighting for your life and you'll still be like "can't believe you didn't vote Harris". I can't believe Harris threw away the election over the continued genocide of palastinians. That's fucking crazy. Is that not crazy to you? You don't find it fucking insane that the Dems would rather a fascist state than stop actively committing a genocide? Cause that's the fucking Gambit they ran and look where we are.
Look. I'm pissed. Your pissed. But we are just people with no power. Same with all those voters you wanna complain about. All we have is the ability to yell and vote. And while I voted for Harris out of fucking fear, I cannot blame the people who yelled "I will not vote for you if you keep committing genocide" and were fucking CALLED ON THAT SHIT. What kind of monster gambles with their own base over a fucking genocide?
As a fellow reluctant Harris voter, what upsets me the most is that the numbers people have run shows that no, actually, genocide was not the deciding factor in this election, which is kind of an indictment of America itself, but regardless, I'm sick of leftists being blamed when all the ones I know STILL voted Harris and the data shows that it wasn't leftist that didn't turn out, it was centrists. Harris didn't have a voter base. Sure, some dems turned out, but she didn't actually inspire people to vote, and that's basically the only way dems win.
It's because she has no message. All she could promise voters was stuff like "I'll give you a little bit of money to help you get a house." She was all flash and no substance.
*for first time homebuyers who have rented for at least 2 years without a late payment
Because there's nothing that makes a proposal more popular than adding means-testing.
She had a message, it was "more of the same"; when asked what she would do differently from Biden her response wasn't "Fuck this guy who spent the last 4 years doing fuckall, I would have defended abortion rights, appointed an AG who would have put Trump in prison and gone after Manchin and Sinoma, and any republican, a head of the DEA who would have unscheduled cannabis, etc", she said the difference was that she would appoint a republican to the cabinet.
100%
She could have read a laundry list of her First Week, Month intended actions and won over huge swaths of voters- if that was her strategy to win.
Instead she chose fuckall, which is exactly what Biden did for 4 years.
That promise for housing gets misquoted as well as what she actually offered was:
First generation homebuyers who no one in their family has ever owned a house, after paying rent in a government approved rental firm for 2 years could get up to $25,000. And stated starter homes would cost between $300,000 and $800,000 dollars depending on location.
She did have a point to ask Congress to pass legislation to slow people buying more than 50 single family homes.
This was lost to her wealthy advisors telling her to not go through with these plans as they would impact the investment opportunities of housing.
She barely even got to flash before the DNC tried to reign in anything that might change things.
Why blame the politicians with data and statistics on how to run a campaign when you can blame the voters who showed up?
How many times do we have to "swallow our pride" to vote for milquetoast candidates before we can have change? How many times do I have to vote for "nothing will fundamentally change" before I can call bullshit?
I remember the BBC manufacturing consent for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris complicity genocide as well.
Interesting that such a fucked system exists that could allow the 50/50 chance that who wins an election could singlehandedly decide if everything is fascism and genocide or not, with what appears to be no real checks of power in place.
And you choose to blame those who have nearly no control over said system.
Lemmy is also a tiny community relative to other similar communities online. Lenmy is also not even just people in the US. You also don't know how many of those posts were trolls or bots.
It sure seems to me that the larger system and set of choices are completely fucked to begin with and gives the "people" next to no options or say in much of anything.
But yes. If Lemmy people had not slammed Harris.... then... something might have been..... different?
So, yes, if you were in front of the trolley lever, you’d remark “Wow, this system is fucked. Why do we even have trolleys? Shouldn’t they have brakes?”
…and then not pull the lever.
None of you crypto-nazis can be honest about this discussion. You keep lying and presenting the choice as between two unequally bad options. If anything the democrats have been objectively worse in hindsight. There would have been no ceasefire if you had your way.
Now that Trump is in office you want to put on your resistance hats again like we didn't all just watch you rabidly support the genocide yourselves.
This is why people disregard your opinions, because you lie and pretend that they weren't unequally bad options.
They were both bad options, but saying they're equal tells me you don't pay attention or are intentionally lying.
The system is fucked but we exist within that system.
Cool, we remember - now what? What do we materially do now to resist that isn't just blaming non-voters online?
Blaming other people and feeling superior is how Democrats win! Aren't you paying attention? Hey, where are they taking us??!
There aren't many options... Which is probably why op is blaming non-voters, who are complicit in creating our current situation.
Should probably blame the people who actually voted for the guy and not an unrelated third party
Bunch of butthurt authoritarians whining about people they failed to engage and saying "but that's the system we're in" like that doesn't apply equally to having to convince people to vote FOR you
Honestly not sure why it hasn't been suggested that the 'no vote' bullshit was a tactic to get Repubs the win. Sure as hell worked and didn't do anything to solve the issue, as we can blatantly see now.
Wasn't the idea to get the Democrats to explicitly state they were a anti genocide and promise policies to back that up?
That was the big ask, yes.
It's also obvious that Trump and BB were coordinating during the election to ensure Biden couldn't get a ceasefire deal in place in order to harm him politically. But as soon as Trump takes the office they just agree to a ceasefire no problem (as if that hadn't been the plan all along) aaaaaaand then Trump goes off about finishing the job and annexing the whole west bank for the US. What a fucking surprise.
'allegedly'
The mental gymnastics will only intensify as these fucking crypto-nazis get to distance themselves from their beliefs and actions of just a few months ago.
Harris was complicit in genocide.
Trump loudly talked about how he would make the genocide worse.
Why absolve Harris in an attempt to strengthen your argument?
nobody is absolving Harris. She was the lesser evil, and many people chose not to choose, resulting in the greater evil anyways.
Man I really wish you guys elected Harris or Joe Biden to sit back and watch this happen instead of talking about it openly, that would have been great for the Palestinians.
I'd rather have someone watch me fight a bear then have them help the bear by shooting me, and the rest of my family, repeatedly while I fight it. So yeah really would've been a lot better.
And by watch, I mean supply the bear with billions worth of bombs
I mean she entirely was.
And considering the US blocked every ceasefire under her and Biden, and people pointed out even a year ago that the US and Israel want an alternative to the Suez canal, and people pointed out that Israel was moving Palestinians out with the US's help in order to do this, all that happened. Pretty sure it was going exactly the same way. If you haven't noticed, democrats aren't exactly sitting up and saying this is ethnic cleansing or genocide even now. Or trying to fight it.
GeNoCiDe jOe!!!
I think people overestimating just how much the average person cares about wars abroad. This applies to every country.
Those millions of democratic voters that voted Biden in 2020, saw that the cost of living keeps going up, inflation happens and correlates with Biden's term, and most people doesn't understand that:
Correlation =/= Causation.
Most of those 7 million Democratic voters that voted Biden but didn't vote Harris are probably thinking: I voted for Joe Biden and nothing changed, why bother voting
I doubt that 7 Million people suddenly cared about a foreign genocide (like when have the average civillian cared?)